When to stop cleaning?

[Frankm]

Guys, different question but looking for others input and experiences. I ve got a factory Rem 700 VLS in 243 Win. It s always been a great shooter; still is. Put 3 105 gr AMaxes in 1/2" about 2 weeks ago.

I ve noticed the past 2-3 times when I clean it after an outing it takes forever to get the copper out. I use a jag, Butchs and Sweets a have a good routine that I use on all my rifles. Not wanting a debate on chemicals, best ones, etc. I count all my rounds through each rifle and this guy has 974 ... am I starting to see "the end is near"? !! lol

Put 66 rounds through it yesterday and still trying to get copper out.

The Question .... since it s still shooting well would you just shoot it and not worry about getting all the copper out? Maybe just swamp out the majority and when groups go away do the rebarrel? Thinking that barrel has to be getting burned pretty well with near 1000 rounds down it.

Appreciate thoughts; I know a 6 CM or either a 6 Dasher is in this guns not too distant future.
Thx in advance for thoughts!

 

[Forum Boss]

A .243 Win with 1000 rounds may not have a lengthy life left.

You might start your decoppering by a double application of Wipe-Out WHILE BARREL IS STILL WARM, then let it soak for 3-4 hours.

If it's a factory barrel though, there's probably not a whole lot you can do.

 

[shoot4fun]

Are you verifying there's copper in the barrel with a borescope or by patch color?
Personally, I despise Sweets. It is, IMO, very harsh on barrels.
The round count makes me think the throat has gotten rough and there is undoubtably heat checking. Both areas for copper to build up.
I always work toward a perfectly clean throat and can still be content if the last patch shows a little fouling up in the barrel.
That said, different barrels are happy with different cleaning so let the barrel tell you what is clean enough.
My last VLS was a 243. In the beginning it shot horribly. After bedding and pillars, scope change, bedding scope base and a lot of other possibilities crossed off the list A slight (very) nick was found in the crown. After correction it still shot terrible. Another scope change (back to original scope) and it began shooting 1/2MOA or better. I shot if on a couple PD trips and accuracy went south again. Close inspection with a borescope found a chunk of rifling out of the bore about 1/2 way up. It had well under the 974 yours has. The 22-250 VLS barrel I called butterfly. Why? It's life, even with good care not to overheat and careful cleaning, was very short. Needless to say, not a fan of Remington factory barrels.

 

[Uthink Uknow]

That green stuff may be your jag.

 

[FrankG]

I've never seen Sweet's by itself hurt anything. Been using it for about 30 years. Don't use it all the time. Just when in a hurry and after dry patching I follow up with Rem.40x cleaner. Dry patch that out and then a light coat of Hoppe's #9. Dry patch it out and shoot the next day etc...

1k rounds 243win. Barrel is at the end of it's life per say. Your on borrowed time.

Being a factory barrel if the bore is really rough....that could be the cause of the fouling problem. Also that many rounds on it the throat could be really rough and that's causing the problem also or a combination of both.

Ammunition pressure barrels in 243win and they are pulling the barrel right at or just before a 1k rounds usually. The throat wear etc...starts to cause too much velocity variation etc....

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[FrankG]

Also to the OP....

What bullets are you shooting?

Type of bullet and or different lots could be another factor.

 

[Frankm]

I ve shot exclusively 87 gr VMaxes and 105 gr AMaxes.

As shoot4fun mentioned I spent the first 60-80 rounds trying to get gun to shoot. Bedding job and re-crown by my Smith and it came right around. Wasn't happy having to do that to a new gun but the 900 or so rounds since have been great.

FYI, I got it clean this morning, no blue at all from Sweets, went and shot 3 rounds to see what happened and back to nasty blue.

Need to peek at it with a bore scope of my friends... I ll bet throat is fire cracked pretty good!

 

[sqrlgtr]

I thought I was getting my rifles clean till I got one of them Teslong bore scopes.THey can be had for about $50 bucks, well you use to be able to get them dont know about now.Was really surprised how much I was missing with my old cleaning routine and yeah its made a difference on targets also,firm believer in staying ahead on the cleaning especial the carbon in the first part of the barrel.

 

[338 dude]

Jb

 

[Frankm]

sqrlgtr, those borescopes that are affordable for the average guy opened a whole new world to us. What we used to think and what was reality we're the same! lol

I remember a friend of mine getting a Pact chronograph about 30 years ago when most guys didn't have them and he then professed that 'there's nothing in the world that made more grown men cry than a chronograph' ... his book load of H4831 with a 130 gr bullet in his 270 Win that he killed all kinds of deer, Elk, bear and Varmit s with was tripping his screens at 2700 fps and change!!!

I think a borescope might cause the same pain and suffering.

 

[Martin52]

Thought mine was clean 'til I saw this.....shoots fine!

 

[jackson1]

Bottom line let your targets be your guide.
Full disclosure, I own all kinds of cleaning products and gadgets, along with a bore scope and use some of them. My old RCBS electronic bore cleaning gadget never saw much use. Bore scope showed me things, but targets did not improve significantly post its acquisition. Did show me carbon rings, which I was able to remove. Hopefully I was doing an acceptable job back in the day. Enjoy tinkering and cleaning my guns. Just an old fool with to much time on my hands.

Believe I was having brain cramps this morning, when I said my electronic bore cleaner was made by RCBS. I think it was made by Outers part of the same conglomerate at the time. Sorry

 

[Daddymac]

Never look a gift horse in the mouth, no wait, never borescope a good shooting barrel, well crap, I can't remember.

Nothing wrong with trying to get a barrel squeaky clean, but if it is shooting well and you are satisfied then I would say it's clean enough. When I clean, I try to get them as clean as I can, but I don't stress over it.

Don't wait, build that gun now, no burned out barrel justification needed, I just wanted it is good enough

 

[sqrlgtr]

First picture was what I thought was a clean bore after "cleaning" showing clean patches,cannot find pic of after cleaning when i seen this.Second pic is after getting carbon ring out,couldnt find before pic of carbon ring.My niece has been playing with my photo album...I was gettig a few unexplained "fliers" before finding carbon ring,Believe me will not let it get that bad aqain...I have found it is alot easier on me and barrel by staying ahead of the carbon and copper.