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When to start?

Tim Singleton

Tim Singleton

Gold $$ Contributor
l wanted to start a thread on this topic. I'm beginning to realize it maybe the most important thing. If not the most important, it definitely isn't spoken of near enough or given enough importance by guys starting out

When to start your group? This is the most important decision we make

In my opinion
matches are won by the guys who know when to start shooting

What are your thoughts on this?

Sorry for not being clear. The question that is posed to all.
Is when to start shooting your group either short range or long range.
I shoot short range myself. What I'm learning is this is the key to what wins and looses matches.
Understanding the conditions and knowing when to start shooting
 
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I am not entirely sure of the exact question you are asking. So I will give you my 2 cents of my interpretation of what I think you may be asking. It has been my personal experience that my competition rifles do not shoot their best until the barrels are completely "fouled out". In most cases, for me at least, it is past 10 shots. So, here is what I do. Since just about everything we buy is in lots of 100. 100 or 500 or 1000, it can still be broken down into lots of 100. So when I go to a match, I load up 100 rounds. For say a 1000 yard match with 3 / matches, 20 shots each, plus UNlimited sighters, I will usually shoot 22 rounds to "foul out" the barrel and get a "no wind zero". Then when the match comes around, I have 5 sighters per match and 3 "extra" in case of a misfire OR even a "count foul-up" between me and the scorer. I don't know if this is what you are after>>>but it is how I conduct my shots for a 3 match day.
 
There's is countless thousands of discussions on this forum on load development, Bullets, types of powder, types of rests, which cartridge is more accurate, what scope, which barrel manufacturers

When it comes to actually winning matches.
None of that matters if you don't know when to start shooting.
 
Tim Singleton said:
There's is countless thousands of discussions on this forum on load development, Bullets, types of powder, types of rests, which cartridge is more accurate, what scope, which barrel manufacturers

When it comes to actually winning matches.
None of that matters if you don't know when to start shooting.
Click to expand...

Hi Tim, keep a eye on anything upwind once you start firing on a condition you like. Most of your winners are watching the field for cycles to shoot in. Catch one gazing out there and ask them what they see. Could change your luck...
 
savageshooter86 said:
I made the mistake when I first started shooting Fclass that if my 3rd or 4th sighters was an X/10 I would start my record string. Now I shoot several shots that must be X or right there near an X before I feel ready to go. Nothing worse than thinking you are ready and fire a 9 on first shot.
Click to expand...

The Highpower at StLouis or any other old format will get your attention quick. 2 then score is a wake up call. Many times I have posted learning your foul in for this reason.
 
I shothink a match Sunday and did two sighters for match 2 and 3. Then they tell me they do unlimited sighters. But it didn't matter to me. I was following what I'm use to. Two sighters. Sure makes it interesting
 
I agree compleatly! When shooting good, starting the groups is so easy.. When one don´t feel the condition, groups gets started way to late, and the condition is often gone halfways thru the group.

I have been working to reduce my sighter shots for several years. Its so easy to just spray shots in the sighter, without really thinking and paying attention to the condition. I try to also focus alot on my POI. I hold all the way on my 2nd shot if the first one doesn´t land exactly where I expected it to, and try to finish the group qickly. Trust in your rifle and the load is really key for me.

Anyways, the topic is really difficult. It is as much a "feeling" as it is something concrete that can be easily explained in writing..

Peter
 
The guys that are winning matches have spent the time out shooting.
They have learned to see the conditions as they come and go. They know when to start shooting and when not to shoot.
you have to spend the time in practice with a timer shooting as if in a match to begin to see this. At that it takes years of experience.
Anyway it seems to me this is by far more important to learn
than bullet xy or z, Or what barrel or scope
 
Immike said:
Hi Tim, keep a eye on anything upwind once you start firing on a condition you like. Most of your winners are watching the field for cycles to shoot in. Catch one gazing out there and ask them what they see. Could change your luck...
Click to expand...
I think the long range shooters watch for cycles. I know at least some of the best long range BR guys do. It is also so important to know when to stop. I don't hold for changes, I stop if I don't like what I see. At Williamsport if you hold, it's not going to go where you think and now you really hurt your group. I have seen so many shooters, new and repeat ones come there, they always ask what do you watch and is it always like this. I would love to see a big F-Class match held there. One with top shooters, just to see how well they could do.

I went to IBS short range Nationals the last two times it was close to me. I wanted to see the equipment and mainly the rail guns. I had a friend that shoots longrange and also short. He introduced me to a lot of shooters. I went around and talked to a bunch of them over the 6 days it was held. I had all kinds of questions and most of them talked freely. The one question I asked about was conditions and flags. I asked if they wait till the flags stop. Most said it was the worst time to shoot because you never knew where the bullet would go. They said they prefer a condition to shoot in. I didn't quite understand that, because I would of thought no wind would be the best. Matt
 
dkhunt14 said:
I think the long range shooters watch for cycles. I know at least some of the best long range BR guys do. It is also so important to know when to stop. I don't hold for changes, I stop if I don't like what I see. At Williamsport if you hold, it's not going to go where you think and now you really hurt your group. I have seen so many shooters, new and repeat ones come there, they always ask what do you watch and is it always like this. I would love to see a big F-Class match held there. One with top shooters, just to see how well they could do.

I went to IBS short range Nationals the last two times it was close to me. I wanted to see the equipment and mainly the rail guns. I had a friend that shoots longrange and also short. He introduced me to a lot of shooters. I went around and talked to a bunch of them over the 6 days it was held. I had all kinds of questions and most of them talked freely. The one question I asked about was conditions and flags. I asked if they wait till the flags stop. Most said it was the worst time to shoot because you never knew where the bullet would go. They said they prefer a condition to shoot in. I didn't quite understand that, because I would of thought no wind would be the best. Matt
Click to expand...
Matt at first that's all I could do was try to shoot with the flags down. Cause you don't know what's going on.
The problem is they're not down much at best the first match of the morning is a trigger pull calm condition.

So if a person is serious about it they gotta get out there and shoot in it
 
Tim Singleton said:
The guys that are winning matches have spent the time out shooting.
They have learned to see the conditions as they come and go. They know when to start shooting and when not to shoot.
you have to spend the time in practice with a timer shooting as if in a match to begin to see this. At that it takes years of experience.
Anyway it seems to me this is by far more important to learn
than bullet xy or z, Or what barrel or scope
Click to expand...

Absolutely! 2 and 3gun wins don´t happen without plenty of practice... However, good barrels and great bullets really help!
 
Are you typically a runner or a picker?

I'm just beginning to develop enough patients to wait on a decent shootable condition to come around. But when it seems to be there I'm jumping on wide open runner. Mainly I think because I'm not experienced enough to pick through

I watched Jeff Summers the 2016 SE region champion, shoot this fall on his last group of the match it could have went either way for him based on how he shot this last group
He got 3 shots off pretty early and then lost his push.
3 mins or so later after a couple sighter he puts the 4th one in The group
Just before time ran out he put the 5th in pretty tight. Tight enough to win the 4 gun
I think it's safe to say he wasn't set out to shoot a tiny small group of the day he was trying to take what the condition would give him and whip our butts

I'm no where near that level of shooter but I've seen how patient you need to be. Also the winners strategy isn't always to shoot the smallest group every time they may not win a match all weekend but they will agg. you to death in the 2 or 3 gun and take off with the whole match.
 
Tim Singleton said:
Are you typically a runner or a picker?
Click to expand...

I´m pretty much running the groups as fast as I can. I´m normally shooting the most benign, least pushing, conditions offered. Especially when it´s windy, I raghter shoot with the flags pointing in all directions giving me "ugly" ~.200" groups all day, rather than risking big reverses.

It should be said that I´m shooting in northern europe, and I belive our conditions might be a bit different than yours in general.
 
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