When is it time.....?

[SDDasher]

All of us have probably had the dodgy ole uncle, parent,or friend that reached a point in life when doing things that used to come easy has become a difficult if not imposibble task. The following is offered in earnest and not intended to offend anyone as we all approach this day.

I shoot primarily in the south where it can get extremely hot and humid in the summer time from Fl to GA,TN, MS, Tx & LA & AL. The point of the question is that there is an older ( I am 65 ) gentleman who is a nice fellow and nolds a HM classification in MR & LR F classification. I have competed in about a dozen matches with this gentleman and to date he has only completed one match in the two years I have known him. He withdraws usually after shooting one or two relays and providing the poorest pit service you could imagine. His leaving the match is a blessing but also a burden as it places additional stress on his fellow squad members after he withdraws.

Who's responsibility is it to let this shooter know they cannot perform all the responsibilites of the competitor? Should the Match Director be informed of the track record this fellow has had in the last two years? I'm talking about Regional and State Championship matches,not just monthly club matches.

 

[watercam]

In a similar, no, identical situation our club had to insist that the shooter in question provide a puller or pay for one at the match. He brought his wife a few times (she was actually terrific in the pits) and then got in the habit of paying for pullers if available. It was on a Marine Corps base so it was easy to find someone who had experience and needed a few extra bucks.
Tough conversation to start but he was aware of the extra stress he put on the match.

 

[chkunz]

Are there normally two pullers per target in this situation? I think it is important to have two shooters per target to help with this situation but a more common issue is with the new shooter that needs to be paired up with an experienced shooter to learn.

 

[SDDasher]

Are there normally two pullers per target in this situation? I think it is important to have two shooters per target to help with this situation but a more common issue is with the new shooter that needs to be paired up with an experienced shooter to learn.

A good many matches use three shooters per squad to shorten the day. Most big matches have four but that still leaves one guy pulling by him(her)self after he withdraws. Unfair to that one shooter IMO.

 

[Slngruki]

Mr. Wes , I believe I have competed with this gentleman many times in many states. I'm afraid it has become a safety concern as much as an aggravation. I did learn two things while shooting in matches with him (1) I learned how to shoot through changing conditions when he was pulling my target (2) I learned how to shoot with both eyes open, one eye was keeping track of what he was doing.

 

[SDDasher]

Mr. Wes , I believe I have competed with this gentleman many times in many states. I'm afraid it has become a safety concern as much as an aggravation. I did learn two things while shooting in matches with him (1) I learned how to shoot through changing conditions when he was pulling my target (2) I learned how to shoot with both eyes open, one eye was keeping track of what he was doing.

The safety issue concerns me as well.

 

[ShootDots]

All of us have probably had the dodgy ole uncle, parent,or friend that reached a point in life when doing things that used to come easy has become a difficult if not imposibble task. The following is offered in earnest and not intended to offend anyone as we all approach this day.

I shoot primarily in the south where it can get extremely hot and humid in the summer time from Fl to GA,TN, MS, Tx & LA & AL. The point of the question is that there is an older ( I am 65 ) gentleman who is a nice fellow and nolds a HM classification in MR & LR F classification. I have competed in about a dozen matches with this gentleman and to date he has only completed one match in the two years I have known him. He withdraws usually after shooting one or two relays and providing the poorest pit service you could imagine. His leaving the match is a blessing but also a burden as it places additional stress on his fellow squad members after he withdraws.

Who's responsibility is it to let this shooter know they cannot perform all the responsibilites of the competitor? Should the Match Director be informed of the track record this fellow has had in the last two years? I'm talking about Regional and State Championship matches,not just monthly club matches.

Wes, here is what I would do. Obviously the man wants to shoot. He is just as obviously handicapped due to his age. Based on his past inabilities, I would approach the Match Director with this argument and a solution. We all PAY good money to shoot, especially at a Regional or State Championship. We should be allowed or permitted to have reasonably good pit service, as there is the possibility of either winning or setting a National record IF we have reasonably good pit service. This gentleman is hindering my ability to achieve any of the aforementioned goals, of which I am paying to attempt achievement! SOLUTION: Do NOT let the gentleman do pit service. If we are NOT shooting and either scoring or "resting" depending on how many relays, have the other person VOLUNTEER to go do pit service and when it is his turn in the pits, let him score instead. That way he gets to shoot and you get good pit service. The gentleman is aged and has "earned his stripes">>>ergo I would volunteer for him to help someone else out. I would go the extra mile so the old guy can shoot and you would get good pit service.

 

[SDDasher]

All of us have probably had the dodgy ole uncle, parent,or friend that reached a point in life when doing things that used to come easy has become a difficult if not imposibble task. The following is offered in earnest and not intended to offend anyone as we all approach this day.

I shoot primarily in the south where it can get extremely hot and humid in the summer time from Fl to GA,TN, MS, Tx & LA & AL. The point of the question is that there is an older ( I am 65 ) gentleman who is a nice fellow and nolds a HM classification in MR & LR F classification. I have competed in about a dozen matches with this gentleman and to date he has only completed one match in the two years I have known him. He withdraws usually after shooting one or two relays and providing the poorest pit service you could imagine. His leaving the match is a blessing but also a burden as it places additional stress on his fellow squad members after he withdraws.

Who's responsibility is it to let this shooter know they cannot perform all the responsibilites of the competitor? Should the Match Director be informed of the track record this fellow has had in the last two years? I'm talking about Regional and State Championship matches,not just monthly club matches.

Wes, here is what I would do. Obviously the man wants to shoot. He is just as obviously handicapped due to his age. Based on his past inabilities, I would approach the Match Director with this argument and a solution. We all PAY good money to shoot, especially at a Regional or State Championship. We should be allowed or permitted to have reasonably good pit service, as there is the possibility of either winning or setting a National record IF we have reasonably good pit service. This gentleman is hindering my ability to achieve any of the aforementioned goals, of which I am paying to attempt achievement! SOLUTION: Do NOT let the gentleman do pit service. If we are NOT shooting and either scoring or "resting" depending on how many relays, have the other person VOLUNTEER to go do pit service and when it is his turn in the pits, let him score instead. That way he gets to shoot and you get good pit service. The gentleman is aged and has "earned his stripes">>>ergo I would volunteer for him to help someone else out. I would go the extra mile so the old guy can shoot and you would get good pit service.

Thanks Ben
Something will have to change as this sooner or later is going to boil over with hurt feelings and damaged friendships. I hate to see that in a relitively controversy free sport.

 

[ShootDots]

I understand completely Wes.. Doing pit service for the old fellow would probably be appreciated by him. He, I am sure, is well aware of his limitations and probably HATES the thought of having to do pit service at his age anyhow. So offering to go in his stead would, most likely, be a relief on his part too!

 

[Judd]

Handle it the way you would want it to be handled if you were him. I agree 100% with Dots...this guys has earned his stripes and the younger, more abled, group needs to step up and help. I dayum sure wouldn't run him off.

I fear getting old more than I do dying....this is a prime example why.

Good luck, tough situation.

 

[chkunz]

Handle it the way you would want it to be handled if you were him. I agree 100% with Dots...this guys has earned his stripes and the younger, more abled, group needs to step up and help. I dayum sure wouldn't run him off.

I fear getting old more than I do dying....this is a prime example why.

Good luck, tough situation.

Good point and I agree completely. This is one more detail that makes the match director's job difficult. The challenge is to use the guy where he can do his part, help run the line, run the pits, etc. rather than pull a target. Most match directors want to shoot in the small matches and do not have any non shooting support and that makes it difficult to adjust to all the new shooters and special issues like this. One thought that I have had is to ask for the more experienced competitors to volunteer to help run one match a year and not shoot in that match.

 

[painless2]

I believe I saw somewhere, at least in the nationals, grand seniors are exempt from pit duty.
True?
Tom

 

[XTR]

I believe I saw somewhere, at least in the nationals, grand seniors are exempt from pit duty.
True?
Tom

I believe that was a Bald Eagles thing at Raton

 

[SDDasher]

If allowed for in the match bulletin my original op is a mute point. I was speaking to matches that require all competitors to be available to shoot,score and pull targets. I am all for paid pullers, and/or exemptions due to age or physical limitations. But, when a competitor shows up to a match and does not request or recognize they need assistance that is a whole different set of issues and is what I was originally describing.

 

[Wjesswheel]

These are all the reasons why as a newbie I hesitate to just show up and shoot, because most I believe post just show up and shoot then make a post about all the ways I ****ed it up

 

[SDDasher]

In all my years of shooting competitive matches I have yet to see or hear any criticism of a new shooter. If that is happening you might want to find a new place to shoot.

 

[ShootDots]

Before I was a newbie F-Classer, I had 2 friends who were always encouraging me to get into F-Open. So I went 2 times (back to back) to 1000 yard matches. The first time I watched and helped at scoring. The second time I went to the pits to see what was going on and help out. That taught me what to do and how to do it quickly. The third time I actually became a participant. Because I had someone who taught me what to do and how to do it, I had no complaints lodged against me in the pits.

I think it would be very advantageous for ANY potential competitor to spend time at a match doing pit service and help scoring, PRIOR to becoming a participant. It helps all the way around..

 

[BT1]

This is my 3 rd year of competing in F-Open. I am 67 years old and for the most part think I do a very good job in the pits and try to offer equal or better pit service than I receive. Can usually turn an accurately marked target alone in less than 10 seconds. I still consider it much more important and stressful than actually shooting an event. If I make a stupid mistake at the firing line, then that's on me, no problem. But if I make a mistake in the pits then that's a negative on the other competitor. As we age, both sight and hearing start to fail all of us. I have had an occasion were I just could not see the bullet impact in a dark hole in the berm in a shadow, nor hear the crack overhead. I was called on more than one occasion that relay to mark #xx. I felt terrible and know I caused the shooter to feel cheated. It has not happened since, but could happen again. I always ask if paid pullers are available. If I remember correctly, when at the Nationals last year, the entry form stated that all SHOOTERS must pull targets. I understand that it is better to have pullers that have some skin in the game, but that seemed a bit extreme. Hope to be able to continue in the sport for many more years. Close to and "gunning" for HM ranking at long range this year.

Steve

 

[sfinn]

I have this same situation coming up in the next match. These gentlemen have been cornerstones of shooting for many years and deserve our upmost respect. We normally run three relays in our monthly matches. As usual there are a couple firing points with two men. Run that point as two man rotation. The gentlemen will stay at the firing line and either score or shoot. Many of our shooters have said that he should not be in the pits out of respect. I think this is a good solution.

 

[chkunz]

I have this same situation coming up in the next match. These gentlemen have been cornerstones of shooting for many years and deserve our upmost respect. We normally run three relays in our monthly matches. As usual there are a couple firing points with two men. Run that point as two man rotation. The gentlemen will stay at the firing line and either score or shoot. Many of our shooters have said that he should not be in the pits out of respect. I think this is a good solution.

I think you are headed in the right direction and you may need to consider four relays to accommodate this situation. Utilize them where they can be most effective but do not put them where they can not effectively perform. They have a lot of experience and can contribute, registration, running the line, etc.