When gunmakers go bad.

[longlowdog]

My gunmaker has had my 50% deposit for 30 months, he has been telling me for 7 months the thing has been built but he has not managed to send it. Excuses range from suspect couriers to expansion of premisis. How do I get my money back or get some pay back? I am in the U.K. and he is in continental Europe. Prelimenary legal advice says it could cost a small fortune for cross border litigation. Any suggestions welcome.

 

[benjamin]

go see the man

 

[pauls]

What benjamin said.

 

[longlowdog]

Would that be nicely in the daytime or less so at night? Seriously, I am at my wits end with the guy. I am almost at the stage of telling him to keep the money,£2500=$5000)and just put this thing behind me so I can get over it. So many excuses and delays have just soured my idea of a custom gun. The pride of owning something unique to me is ruined by his casual attitute to misleading me. I have had assurances that it would be delivered before each of the major comps I wanted to attend this season, I pay my entry fees in good faith then nothing happens time and time again.
Just to fly out to visit him and stay one night in a room would add another £300-$600 to my loses.
Is it acceptable to name and shame on this site? 'Cos I realy want to shout his name from the rooftops so no other sucker gets bitten like me.
Longlowdog

 

[Ogre6br]

how much would it cost you to get the train over and then stay in a YHA for the night

YHA's are only a few pounds a night

your only going to be there 1 night whats a bit of a cheap arse place going to matter

do you have any biker mates??

ask them to get one of their local chapter brothers to pay the guy a visit and just politely ask WTF the rifle is

All the bikers I know have chapters all over the world and usually have a chapter near somewhere

later
p

 

[billmo]

Would that be nicely in the daytime or less so at night? Seriously, I am at my wits end with the guy. I am almost at the stage of telling him to keep the money,£2500=$5000)and just put this thing behind me so I can get over it. So many excuses and delays have just soured my idea of a custom gun. The pride of owning something unique to me is ruined by his casual attitute to misleading me. I have had assurances that it would be delivered before each of the major comps I wanted to attend this season, I pay my entry fees in good faith then nothing happens time and time again.
Just to fly out to visit him and stay one night in a room would add another £300-$600 to my loses.
Is it acceptable to name and shame on this site? 'Cos I realy want to shout his name from the rooftops so no other sucker gets bitten like me.
Longlowdog

By all means, expose this crook. That is the only label that fits. No one wants to get bit by this type of person. I would have already had his name plastered all over the place. You need to visit him and leave a few nice lumps on his damn head. Bill

 

[longlowdog]

If a site moderator gives permission I will name and shame, but I enjoy this site big time and don't want to be removed. I am not the same as my gunsmith and I like to play by the rules.
Ogre6br, there is the small matter of the English channel twixt me and him, a rail journey would be many, many hours long going via the Channel tunnel. I don't know any 'Angel' type guys who could be a bit more persuasive.
Longlowdog.

 

[spclark]

In the US we have local government attorneys,'solicitors' in the UK I think, not sure what the term would be in other EU countries) who investigate fraud.

You might want to look into contacting the appropriate officials in the town where your gunsmith has his business or home. If he runs an established business he'd need one or more business licenses also, so the licensing authority is worth looking up. If he runs his business out of his basement or garage on the sly, depending on local regulations, he may be willing to avoid raising the interest of anyone in government so you might gain leverage somehow with this as a threat.

If he's used the mails to do business with you - or anyone else - you may be able to get some action by going thru the post authority. Using the mail for fraudulent purposes is illegal pretty much everywhere you can send or receive mail.

Under most normal circumstances I personally avoid any an all contact with local authorities but in a case like this I'd make an exception.

 

[longlowdog]

spclark,
that sounds like a promising place to start, the guy claims affiliation with a number of trade guilds. I have a friend in his country, maybe they can find contact addresses for the guilds.
Trying to act within the laws of the land and within the boundaries of common decency seems to leave no option but to involve the authorities.
I am also contacting the magazines where he advertises as I have heard they take this sort of thing quite seriously. I don't hold much hope for this tho' as he is the one paying them.
Longlowdog

 

[glbpmc]

I had the same problem with Infinity Precision in Oklahoma.The Attorney General finally got a rifle sent but it was not all I paid for. The Attorney General will only prosecute if they get more complaints, but will not get your money back you will still need to sue.

 

[Ogre6br]

where in the old country do you live

Pm me

one of my not so "angelic brotherhood" to use your term -but not the right moniker- as my mates are of a diff type

might live near by

once you have been given an "introduction" to the brothers- we can see about having another chapter make a social call on your behalf

if they are able to help this sort of thing means you will put a clubhouse BBQ on to say thank you

later
P

 

[KBattenbough]

Hi Longlowdog
Would this gunsmith be based in Germany by any chance?
KB

 

[longlowdog]

KBattenbough,
you are right enough. Are you/have you been in the same situation? Any info' you have greatly appreciated as if there is more than one complainant I think the case would be stronger. I already know another guy in the same boat since starting this thread.
Ogre, I really do appreciate the sentiment, I also believe that some people only respond to less than gentlemanly tactics. At this time however I will try within the law to correct this problem, I will keep you in mind if the law does not protect my rights to fair treatment. Thank you.
Regards, Longlowdog.

 

[Ogre6br]

fair enough

later
p

 

[longlowdog]

Savageguy and Billmo,
since I have not heard from a moderator forbiding me to post the guys name, he is Pete Lincoln of Roedale Precision Rifles based in Germany. I've given up communicating with him since Emails are only answered weeks after they are sent, so expect to see more threads like this on other forums so I can warn as many other folk as possible.
Longlowdog

 

[garyw]

longlowdog
iv been watching your messages and may be able to help iv just phoned someone here in the uk who may be able to throw some light on the problem for you i am waiting for a call back so i will post later if possible,or would you rather i pm. you this guy needs sorting your not the first to be"stiffed" by him.
garyw.

 

[JustinP]

I gave him a $1000USD deposit for the new S&B PMII 12-50x56,which is unreleased as yet). While he eventually replies to my e-mails, he did mention when I made the deposit that he could use the cash as he was getting his shop up and running, which I thought a bit strange. Bad idea to use customer deposits for capital expenditure, since you've got to find that cash later when the kit does become available. Robbing Peter to pay Paul, as the saying goes.

No reply to my latest set of e-mails though, so - we'll see. I find it difficult to believe in this day and age, with people linked into both the comp, tactical and wider shooting communities through various mediums,like this) that any gunsmith/supplier could actually think they won't eventually get outed, go bust and get dragged through the courts.

 

[vonb]

Check over at Snipershide.com as to who may know where Pete is. I've seen a few posts over there where folks have/are using him.

 

[hkim]

Sorry to hear of your misfortune, especially when the culprit is outside your legal juristiction.

My experiences with gunsmiths,all unhappy) have convinced me to buy a lathe and do the work myself. I have access to a vertical milling machine and using it to make gun parts is tedious but ultimately satisfying.

 

[longlowdog]

Looking back over the Email trail I was actually told the gun was made in December last year but unlike some others I was never sent 'teaser pics', then the excuses began. I think to be honest I'm fubared. I was also suckered into paying by cheque as allegedly he was just getting set up for card transactions, so no recourse to the credit card companies for debt collection. I also see the usual advert has been ommited from Target Sports magazine,a U.K publication) this month. Another sign?
Since posting this thread I've heard of another guy who has waited even longer than me. Time will tell for him but for me personally I've had enough of being pissed on.