Wheeler method

[AlNyhus]

Operative thought.....Touch is a reference point, that's all. Don't try to make it be something it isn't, that just causes confusion.

When you don't see rifling marks...you're not touching. When you do...you are.

 

[jimmymac]

The EZ Checker is a great tool! It is fast and simple.

 

[jimmymac]

The other thing that’s cool about the tool is having the ability to quickly work the numbers and get close on seater die settings if you have one with a precision micrometer top.

 

[tom]

I've always found not removing the barrel to be less work than removing it lol.

@Dave M. What he means at the end is that we can communicate apples to apples about where we are as compared to "zero".

These 6s probably don't need checked during a match weekend from my experience. Now my 30 shows movement every time I clean it(every couple targets). And it's repeated in wanting to be "chased" 100% of the time. So it's getting cleaned - checked - advanced for tomorrow after each day. It is not "just a starting point" , it is also a maintenance process.

As far as repeatability....obviously you need real bullets if you're going to get the exact same number with multiple "dummies" consecutively. Not too many things more repeatable than it's either stuck or it ain't.



Tom

 

[jimmymac]

I've always found not removing the barrel to be less work than removing it lol.

It is easier to do it up front before I ever put on another barrel. You may be surprised how many short range guys do it this way. I haven’t found anything faster or simpler and it is repeatable. If I feel the need to check it as the barrel wears that is simple enough using the Wheeler method.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

It is easier to do it up front before I ever put on another barrel. You may be surprised how many short range guys do it this way. I haven’t found anything faster or simpler and it is repeatable. If I feel the need to check it as the barrel wears that is simple enough using the Wheeler method.

Thanks Jim. I intentionally mentioned in my post that there's a place for both methods.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Great method and I love Alex’s worth. The only issue I have with the video is his very last statement where he says that if you use this method, two people could share the numbers and know they are talking about the same dimension. This would only be true if they were using the exact same comparator and caliper setup (not the same brand, the EXACT SAME COMPARATOR ABD CALIPERS)
Dave

You mis understood. The numbers we would be sharing are in relation to the lands. If I said to load .006 in we would both be .006 in from the same touch point. You can never share comparator numbers even if the same brand.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The one thing I wish I would have mentioned in the video is that you should be using a straight round to do this. One with lots of runout will drag in the freebore and muddy up things, but that goes with any method.

Different strokes for different folks. I dont think some realize how closely we stay on top of things in LR BR. I literally check the touch point every time I load. If the touch moved .001" I want to know. I know some dont think its that critical and maybe its not for some games. It also plays into other things like new barrel load work. When I chamber a new barrel for a customer that knows his reamer shoots at .007 in then 90% of the time he can go there and be done. Always check, but when you get it all figured out your almost to the point of just putting "the load" in. That just does not work without paying attention to all the details. But yes you can start from any random point you want and just go out and find it and you will get there. I pulled the video off youtube because they got into politics and I didnt want to be funding them or fb, but it had over 50k views. I never monetized it, never made a penny off it, and Im not selling you anything. Unless you need a barrel chambered up And if you do you'll want to use this method so I can give you the seating depth to start at PS I call it the Deep Creek method, because I learned it from those guys...

 

[WIB3]

Alex’s information is spot on. It might require a little more research and effort but it’s correct.

 

[quest450]

Why would I want to jump thru hoops and remove a barrel to check how much my lands moved, that just makes no sense to me.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Why would I want to jump thru hoops and remove a barrel to check how much my lands moved, that just makes no sense to me.

You don't have to. Why would you bother even asking such a question? I know but prefer you say it out loud.

 

[quest450]

lemme try.....thread title "Wheeler method" is all I got

 

[DaveTooley]

Measuring seating depth.
There is a way so two or more people can measure and compare "like" numbers.
I had to devise a system for an ammo project I had with a customer. I got this idea from a visit with Dave Manson. He used it to measure headspace gages. Think ring gage.
I took neck sizing bushings, all the same size ( supposedly ) and had them surface ground until the edge radius was removed. I used bushing -.002" under nominal bullet diameter. That put the bullet contact point midway up the land in the throat. I used a Whidden multi-purpose OAl gage to hold the bushings. I doubled the number of bushings needed playing CYA. I got I think 75% to read within +/-.001" of each other on the same piece of ammo. We could then talk apples to apples about ammo.

Multi-Purpose Overall Length Gauge - Whidden Gunworks

With the Multi-Purpose Overall Length Gauge attached to your Calipers any standard bushing can be used to measure the length of your loaded round from ogive, fired or unfired case length from Datum line or length of individual bullets from ogive. By simply replacing the bushing the combinations...

www.whiddengunworks.com

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

lemme try.....thread title "Wheeler method" is all I got

Nah, you can do better if you're being honest. Nice dodge though. Always best to be forthright imho.

 

[Kevin1990]

Measuring seating depth.
There is a way so two or more people can measure and compare "like" numbers.
I had to devise a system for an ammo project I had with a customer. I got this idea from a visit with Dave Manson. He used it to measure headspace gages. Think ring gage.
I took neck sizing bushings, all the same size ( supposedly ) and had them surface ground until the edge radius was removed. I used bushing -.002" under nominal bullet diameter. That put the bullet contact point midway up the land in the throat. I used a Whidden multi-purpose OAl gage to hold the bushings. I doubled the number of bushings needed playing CYA. I got I think 75% to read within +/-.001" of each other on the same piece of ammo. We could then talk apples to apples about ammo.

Multi-Purpose Overall Length Gauge - Whidden Gunworks

With the Multi-Purpose Overall Length Gauge attached to your Calipers any standard bushing can be used to measure the length of your loaded round from ogive, fired or unfired case length from Datum line or length of individual bullets from ogive. By simply replacing the bushing the combinations...

www.whiddengunworks.com

Hey Dave, how do you like that gauge? I have a whidden bullet comparator and shoulder bump gauge. The shoulder bump is a great little gauge but the bullet comparator seems to stick to the bullet really easy. Even with minimal effort I get it to the point where I can't even spin a loaded round when it's in the gauge with very minimal pressure.

 

[JFrank]

So here’s a legitimate question for those that strip the bolt at the range or in the shop.
Have you ever lost an ejector pin or spring ? How do you go about preventing such a mishap ?

Thanks
Jim

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Jim, get a Starrett 1/16 pin punch. Push it all the way through. On a Bat you can just push by hand. When you get good, you only push the pin 3/4 of the way out. That way you dont have to get it back in. When you pull the punch out thats when the ejector goes flying so you should be ready. Just put your finger over it. It is really a 60 second job to pull the f pin and ejector. Same as swapping a trigger. About 60 seconds.

 

[rwj]

So here’s a legitimate question for those that strip the bolt at the range or in the shop.
Have you ever lost an ejector pin or spring ? How do you go about preventing such a mishap ?

Thanks
Jim

I perform the operation inside a large plastic bag to contain any flying parts!

 

[JFrank]

Thanks guys, I’ll order up the pin punch.

 

[Evan]

Thanks guys, I’ll order up the pin punch.

Check and make sure you get the right type. A plain flat punch works with both types of pins ok, but a roll pin punch is a bit easier for roll pins (obviously, haha) cause it has a balled end that fits inside the pin. I have both types because I didn’t pay attention and got the roll pin punch first.