Wheeler method for seating depth for .223 Rem

[otnot]

Monte - the freebore diameter on my various .223 Rem reamer prints is 0.2242" +/- whatever the manufacturer's tolerances are. All are based on my original 223 Rem ISSF reamer from PTG, with various freebore lengths. Every single one cuts a chamber so tight that when I use a Hornady OAL gauge, the bullet stops when it first encounters the [start] of the freebore. It requires a much harder push on the plastic rod to get the bullet moving again, albeit grudgingly, until it encounters a second [harder] stop, i.e. the rifling. It makes determining CBTO and COAL at "touching" much more difficult than with my .308s, but it is still doable with a little practice and close attention. I still can recall the very first time I took a measurement this way on my first .223 Rem F-TR bolt rifle set up for shooting 90 VLDs. When the bullet hit the start of the freebore, I thought it was actually touching the lands. So I tightened up the set screw and pushed the assembly out with the cleaning rod. Needless to say, I was a little surprised to see the bullet seated way deeper in the case neck than I thought it should be. Once I figured out what was happening and got the measurement working as described below, the difference between the two measurements was very close to 0.169". Imagine that.

The primary concern is that you have to push on the little plastic stick much harder when the bullet first encounters the freebore, but then still be able to feel the rifling and stop a short distance later when the bullet actually encounters the rifling. Like I said, it takes practice and care, but it can be done. There is at least one way to "check" as an internal control whether you have actually accidentally pushed the bullet well into the rifling. I use a cleaning rod inserted from the muzzle to push the bullet and OAL gauge back out as a single unit to take the measurements. If the bullet has actually gone into the rifling any appreciable distance, you can feel additional resistance when using the cleaning rod to push it back out that is not present if the bullet is merely just touching the lands. Further, I make a "Measurement Set" of 8 or 10 bullets grabbed at random from every Lot # of bullets. I number each bullet on the base with a Sharpie, then measure and record the OAL. The Measurement Set goes into a labeled bullet box and is used until that Lot # of bullets is finished. I use the average of the measured CBTO and COAL values, which are also an internal control in that you can immediately see when one measurement is much different than all the others and re-measure with that bullet, if necessary. An additional internal control is that the SD of the COAL measurements taken with the tool should be very close to the SD of bullet OAL. If it is not, then you probably introduced additional error into the measurements when taking them. I attached a copy of a recent set measurements taken from a new barrel on my original .223 Rem F-TR rifle, if you want to get a feel for what the results look like.

Again, this approach with the Hornady OAL gauge is far from ideal due to the tight .223 Rem freebore, but it can still be made to work successfully in the event you are unable to get Alex's method working satisfactorily with your .223s.

I know I'm late but I'm curious because I too have a tight freebore .223. How do you keep from seating a bullet deeper into the case when you chamber a round without having extremely tight neck tension?

 

[LVLAaron]

Not knocking anyone's method but why not just start at full jam and work backward from that? Full jam being defined as the point at which a given neck tension will allow the bullet to push back in the case neck when long seated.
As long as you have a repeatable method, I don't see why it matters, except when comparing notes with someone across the country and their best seating depth may well be different than someone else's anyway. This way has the benefit of only having one way to go, deeper into the case. Once a oal that shoots best is established, I can't see how it matters that you got there. Document it and work from there going forward. To each their own and I'm open to anything. Help me see what I'm missing. If your method is giving you issues, it can't hurt to try another one.

I've described this here before. Seating depth is relative... Find a starting point and work from there. But there are enough people that are absolutely fanantical about "being exactly .xyz off the lands" that they wont listen.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I know I'm late but I'm curious because I too have a tight freebore .223. How do you keep from seating a bullet deeper into the case when you chamber a round without having extremely tight neck tension?

Have you ever tried moving a bullet seated with .002" neck tension (interference fit) with your fingers? I would not call .002" neck tension extremely tight, but I cannot move the seated bullet with my fingers, not even close. They're in there pretty tight and I have never experienced any seating depth issues upon bolt closure. It might be a consideration for those seating bullets at close to a hard jam, but that is pushing the bullet into a rifle bore of diameter 0.2218"-0.2219". According to the reamer prints, my freebore diameter runs in the 0.2242" range, which apparently is not tight enough to move a seated bullet upon bolt closure. I have never had any issues with altering seating depth when chambering a round.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I've described this here before. Seating depth is relative... Find a starting point and work from there. But there are enough people that are absolutely fanantical about "being exactly .xyz off the lands" that they wont listen.

Very true. The reason I like to know exactly where Im at and I want my customers to know as well is so I can help them with load development. Many of the chamberings I do, I know very well and can get a guy very close from the start. But if I say start at .006 in or .013 off and hes actually .012 in or .007 off because hes using the Hornady tool, it makes if hard for both of us.

 

[LVLAaron]

Very true. The reason I like to know exactly where Im at and I want my customers to know as well is so I can help them with load development. Many of the chamberings I do, I know very well and can get a guy very close from the start. But if I say start at .006 in or .013 off and hes actually .012 in or .007 off because hes using the Hornady tool, it makes if hard for both of us.

Great point. I bet the curmudgeons arguing about it aren't your customers hahaha

 

[Ackman]

Split neck case has worked for me since the 80's. This happens to be a BR case. And with a "window gauge" you can check original seating depth on a new barrel, then later use it with the split neck case to find chamber wear. Also for headspace / shoulder bump. Have one for each chamber, every rebarrel should come with one of these.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Ned is spot on, these 223 chambers have a tight freebore. Push harder on the plastic rod in the Hornady kit. Once you find the actual hard jam max length of the chamber, start finessing around and you can figure out the touch point.

I had the same issue on my 6BR - just changing to Sierra 107's for this year. I overcame the fiddling around by using a Sharpie to mark the bullet. This ensures that lands mark the projectile where you expect ie at the 243 touch point.

 

[otnot]

Have you ever tried moving a bullet seated with .002" neck tension (interference fit) with your fingers? I would not call .002" neck tension extremely tight, but I cannot move the seated bullet with my fingers, not even close. They're in there pretty tight and I have never experienced any seating depth issues upon bolt closure. It might be a consideration for those seating bullets at close to a hard jam, but that is pushing the bullet into a rifle bore of diameter 0.2218"-0.2219". According to the reamer prints, my freebore diameter runs in the 0.2242" range, which apparently is not tight enough to move a seated bullet upon bolt closure. I have never had any issues with altering seating depth when chambering a round.

Thanks for the reply Ned. My freebore is actually tight enough that I can’t force a bullet past it without reducing the size of the bullet. Today I was able to polish it with some JB and a patch enough to get past it to the lands and the bullet now extracts with the case. Thanks again

 

[Ned Ludd]

Thanks for the reply Ned. My freebore is actually tight enough that I can’t force a bullet past it without reducing the size of the bullet. Today I was able to polish it with some JB and a patch enough to get past it to the lands and the bullet now extracts with the case. Thanks again

I've not had one that tight. That could also have something to do with the diameters of the bullets we're using. According to my reamer prints, the freebore diameters are .2242" +/- to whatever tolerances they held the reamers. They're tight enough to make using a Hornady OAL gauge a little more challenging. However, with a little more pressure on the plastic stick, the bullets will still move out through the freebore until engaging the lands, albeit grudgingly. In any event, I hope the JB treatment gets the job done for you.

 

[RegionRat]

Just a wild shot in the dark-----I thought the Wheeler Method worked
by feeling and hearing the bolt click on extraction.

https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/videos

Look down towards the bottom and you will see a video called Finding Your Lands...

The concepts of using the stripped bolt to help sensitize the closing to feel the lands or when the shoulder is done being bumped are similar.

 

[Lucky Shooter]

Thank you or the correction Region Rat.

I've been working this on extraction a long time before I heard of the Wheeler Method-----no disrespect to the Wheeler guys.

I've been able to sometimes feeling the bullet going into the lands but somehow
started using the bolt click on extraction.

My previous post is deleted.

A. Weldy