What's up with .22 creed ?

[ELR LVR]

And to be clear please understand I’m not being argumentative. Just answering questions based upon my experience plus plenty of personal opinion. The original appeal of PO Ackley’s design was factory ammo could be fireformed in the improved chamber after the original barrel was set back to assure headspacing with a rimless cartridge. That’s how I built my 22-250AI. Of course going the new barrel route opens up options. What does a 22 Creed do that the 22-250 AI doesn’t? Production guns, factory ammo, no fireforming and standard loading dies versus expensive custom dies. Not hating on the 22-250 AI - like I said, I have one. But the 22 Creedmoor does make a lot of sense for some people. I suspect many of us are so weary of the 6.5 Creeemoor hype that anything bearing that name makes our stomach sour. Guilty as charged.

Nah I didnt take it argumentative, just friendly debating, offering different viewpoints etc.
I guess what some of us are thinking is
Why didnt they just commercialize the 22-250 AI since it already had good popularity?
is it an infringement on PO Ackley's rights ? Does anyone own the rights to it?
---
No biggee, thats what a free country is all about, being able to commercialize and market ones own ideas.
Just most of us seen what they did
---
to me its kind of like when someone steals another persons music or song, and all they have to do is change one word of it, or one note to sudden;y call it their own creation.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

i'll stick with my 22 dasher, hornady can go to hell

 

[ronsatspokane]

No love for the 22 PPC?

 

[lb-ft]

I think 22 Creedmoor will always have the 223 as a competitor when it comes to getting people to part with their cash. I know, I know, they’re not even in the same stratosphere when it comes to performance. But 223 ammo is just so very dirt cheap to buy, or to reload, and so extremely plentiful, not to mention the massive market share it enjoys, it’s got to cut into 22 Creedmoor ammo (&rifle) sales at the end of the day. If I’m paying premium $ for factory ammo whether it’s 6.5 / 6 / 22, any of the Creedmoors, I’m going to go bigger bore than the 223 I already own. I bet I’m not alone here.

 

[JGSprecision]

It takes a SAAMI member to get a cartridge certified. Certified is key to factory rifles and factory rifles aka "Popularity". All AIs have certain downsides, IMHO neck length is one - it has to be overlength for the parent cart but one it forms its pretty short. Not many AIs make the list.

I've been getting on the 22CM train lol.
Number one reason was magazine compatibility.
Number 2- heavy per caliber bullets without over deep seating depths while still hitting 3000-3200 speed.
Number 3- As time goes by CM based brass only gets easier to source. Also I had decent luck FF old 22-250 to 22CM but as availability kicks in I probably won't bother.

There does seem to be 2 barrel types becoming popular, slow twist / std freebore chambers and 7-8 twist long loading freebore chambers.
There's always a market for ultra varmint fast barrel burners.
The 7twist is trying to have flat/quick and decent ft/lb at some longer distances.
Coyotes come to mind.

 

[jpjulian]

Since I already have a .223WSSM I won't be jumping on the .22 Creed bandwagon. It's bound to be a barrel burner, as is the WSSM, but what I hope for is that the .22 Creed isn't as psychotic to load for as is the WSSM.

 

[Gary in MD]

Always been a fan of the 22-250 & the Swift and still have a couple of each. They are tough to beat for varmint hunting. But I’m going to try the 22 CM, I’ve got a 7.5 twist barrel on standby. Speed, accuracy, quality brass….what’s not to like? Also have a couple 223s laying around (yawn).

 

[DLT]

Always been a fan of the 22-250 & the Swift and still have a couple of each. They are tough to beat for varmint hunting. But I’m going to try the 22 CM, I’ve got a 7.5 twist barrel on standby. Speed, accuracy, quality brass….what’s not to like? Also have a couple 223s laying around (yawn).

I’m in the exact same boat as you

 

[urbanrifleman]

I don't know where you're hanging out but in my world 22CM use is expanding rapidly. Not factory guns and ammo but full customs and pre-fit barrel swaps and hand loading. Factory brass is almost always available. Reamers are easy to come by and freebore numbers have been pretty much solidified. 8T for the 75-80's and 7.5T for the heavies like the 88. No one asks about 22-250AI's, it's "what about doing a 22CM?". There's two lined up here in the pipeline. It's a fun, easy to source parts and components for hot rod.

22cm is one of the top 22s I chamber. I probably did 50 last year. Mostly for short barreled, suppressed Coyote hunters.

For whatever reason they love them.

I think calling a 22 Creed a 22-250 is kind of silly. It's probably closer to a 220 Swift (which simply doesn't exist any more). Most people forget you couldn't get 22-250 brass (the old suppliers) since before COVID. It doesn't surprise me 22 Creed filled the gap.

 

[JGSprecision]

I like that it can be barreled and loaded like a 22-250. While not ideal I have at least one barely shot 22-250 barrel that is going to get rechambered to 22 CM because its a gas gun. I will be using a 0.030 FB 22CM reamer from before they subbed the SAAMI.

 

[DLT]

22cm is one of the top 22s I chamber. I probably did 50 last year. Mostly for short barreled, suppressed Coyote hunters.

For whatever reason they love them.

I think calling a 22 Creed a 22-250 is kind of silly. It's probably closer to a 220 Swift (which simply doesn't exist any more). Most people forget you couldn't get 22-250 brass (the old suppliers) since before COVID. It doesn't surprise me 22 Creed filled the gap.

Exactly

 

[Woollybugger]

22cm is one of the top 22s I chamber. I probably did 50 last year. Mostly for short barreled, suppressed Coyote hunters.

For whatever reason they love them.

I think calling a 22 Creed a 22-250 is kind of silly. It's probably closer to a 220 Swift (which simply doesn't exist any more). Most people forget you couldn't get 22-250 brass (the old suppliers) since before COVID. It doesn't surprise me 22 Creed filled the gap.

I’m a GT fan so the creed is a bit overbore for me. Many of my Thermal night coyote friends have jumped on the 22 creed because they don’t reload and can buy ammo from 1776 ammo. 80gr Bergers at 3450 out of a 22” barrel are very deadly on coyotes. Many run 20” with a can.

 

[PhilC]

My first build 6yrs ago was a 22Creed. Why? Because I didn't own a 22 centerfire, it appealed to me and I like to be different. Initially planned it to be 22-250AI but after reading about the 22CM decided to go that route instead.

Built a 7BR on a Savage target action and shoot cast bullet competition with it.

 

[Doug Casner]

Ive got three swifts and a 22-250 . Havent looked at the 22 creed. Doug

 

[Charlie-NY]

I built a 22 Creed just for fun but it doesn't do anything that my 22-243 & 22-243AI didn't do better. Run a piece of 243 Lapua brass through a FL die and you are ready to go.

 

[Mike in Oregon]

I choose the 22CM over the 22-250 and Ackley Improved due to fire forming and it being the new kid on the block. Now I have a 22-250 as well. When the barrel goes, I will re-barrel to 22-250 Ackley Improved. I guess you could say, I drove around the block, but I took the scenic route! They'll be used for rock chucks and PD's. I also went with the 22CM's brothers, the 6CM and 6.5CM. One happy, accurate family.

 

[TC260]

Nah I didnt take it argumentative, just friendly debating, offering different viewpoints etc.
I guess what some of us are thinking is
Why didnt they just commercialize the 22-250 AI since it already had good popularity?
is it an infringement on PO Ackley's rights ? Does anyone own the rights to it?
---
No biggee, thats what a free country is all about, being able to commercialize and market ones own ideas.
Just most of us seen what they did
---
to me its kind of like when someone steals another persons music or song, and all they have to do is change one word of it, or one note to sudden;y call it their own creation.

I think there's too much headache with too little upside for a company to standardize existing wildcats. Sometimes it works but the longer a wildcat has been around the worse it is for them to standardize it. One issue is all the chamber variations and twist rates that have been used over the years. That forces the ammo manufacturers to make all kinds of compromises so the average guy buying off the shelf at Academy has a gun that'll function. The last thing these companies want to be dealing with is endless phone calls about why their ammo sucks because bullets are keyholing out of pappy's ole 14t varmint rifle.

The easy solution is to design the chamber, twist rate, and everything exactly the way they want and submit it to SAAMI with a new name. That way they're starting off with a clean slate, no compromises have to be made, and the ammo companies can make stuff that works and works well.

I don't think it's "stealing" for a company to make some changes and standardize a round because they don't own exclusive rights to the cartridge. All the other SAAMI manufacturers are free to use it and make money off it too so it's good for everybody when a cartridge is successful.