What's the real ballistic difference at 600 yards

[Evan]

So I've been considering a 22 BR recently and decided to do a little analysis on how it compares to other chamberings. I made this little chart that I thought folks might like:

I'm still thinking a 1:7 twist 22BR shooting 80s and 90s will be pretty sweet at 600 yards! I'm finding it interesting that "fast and flat" bullet selections don't actually have much effect on vertical. The 69 TMK at 3500 and the 88 ELD at 2950 are only 0.5" apart if a 10 yard error was made at 600 yards.

 

[xswanted]

I love mine.

I have my reamer from the current barrel ready to go when it’s time to rechamber.

I’ve used 75s from it mainly but will use 80s for Target plinking this summer.

Lots of fun.

 

[ShootDots]

I know a couple of F-T/R shooters that were using "straight" 7 twist barrels in their .223s for 5-600 yard competition. They had (may still have>>>not certain) a BIG problem with blow-ups shooting the 90s.. They were blowing up bullets with BOTH the Berger and the SMKs. They were running them about 2800f.p.s. I am quite certain the .22 BR will spit them out quite a bit faster. If they were shooting 7 twist at 2800 and blowing them up, how much worse will it get going considerably faster? You are talking 600 yards here>>>I am guessing some form of competition. If you're just shooting for fun>>>no worries..

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Youre no breaking ground here- its been done plenty, heck ole stan taylor shoots a 20dasher at 1k. But in general to get any kind of advantage the twist will not let about half of the bullets get there. Thats if you use a bullet heavy enough and push it fast enough to actually be competitive. Its one of those things that looks good on paper.

 

[Evan]

I know a couple of F-T/R shooters that were using "straight" 7 twist barrels in their .223s for 5-600 yard competition. They had (may still have>>>not certain) a BIG problem with blow-ups shooting the 90s.. They were blowing up bullets with BOTH the Berger and the SMKs. They were running them about 2800f.p.s. I am quite certain the .22 BR will spit them out quite a bit faster. If they were shooting 7 twist at 2800 and blowing them up, how much worse will it get going considerably faster? You are talking 600 yards here>>>I am guessing some form of competition. If you're just shooting for fun>>>no worries..

I'm just shooting for fun. I've got my 20vt that shoots to 300 real nicely, this is to cover the mid ground until I pull the 6.5 for long range work.

I'm concerned about the twist for sure. I keep waffling, cause an 8 twist and staying 80s and below is entirely safe. The 7, just to shoot 90s, opens the whole can of worms. I just don't know if it's worth it. The on-paper performance gain is minimal.

Youre no breaking ground here- its been done plenty, heck ole stan taylor shoots a 20dasher at 1k. But in general to get any kind of advantage the twist will not let about half of the bullets get there. Thats if you use a bullet heavy enough and push it fast enough to actually be competitive. Its one of those things that looks good on paper.

Oh I agree. Not thinking I've found a better mousetrap, only a cheaper one! The 10cent step in price moving from 22 to 6mm adds up if you're just shooting for fun and I think that the 22 will get me 95% of the 6mm accuracy. I don't think I can shoot the difference at 600, so saving 10 cents towards another shot is probably a good tradeoff.

Thoughts on 80 with an 8twist vs 90s with a 7?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

A lot of people (myself included) go to a 7.7tw and go from there

 

[Evan]

A lot of people (myself included) go to a 7.7tw and go from there

Does that stabilize the 90s? I'm at 5000ft, but also shoot in 10degree weather from time to time. Berger lead me to believe it was edgy to try a 7.5 with their 90 vld

 

[Dusty Stevens]

You gotta try it and see. Sometimes it does. Maybe not 5000’. Just step back on weight if not.

 

[ShootDots]

I'm concerned about the twist for sure. I keep waffling, cause an 8 twist and staying 80s and below is entirely safe. The 7, just to shoot 90s, opens the whole can of worms. I just don't know if it's worth it. The on-paper performance gain is minimal.

Yep.. Ultra-fast twists, along with long bearing surfaced bullets, will create loads of heat, thus increasing the potential for bullet blow-ups. My opinion is to "play-it-safe" and shoot the known bullets that should not normally present problems..

 

[steve123]

I was going to build a 22BR or similar. There is some intrigue to it but due to past expensive failed project 20x47L and a few other problems with other cartridge and bullet combo's, I decided against it.

That's why I didn't do my 17-6.5GAI project after all.

Also, like in your chart, a plain ole 6mmBR doesn't blow much more in the wind than 22BR, has much better barrel life, is probably more accurate, and is just easy. The older I get the more meaning the word "easy" has.

I'm selling my 223AI only because of the redundancy between it with 88's and my 6mmBR with 105's. I like the 6mm more and the recoil difference hardly noticeable.

My 6.5 Saum is the next step up. Even with this those 140 hybrids I had blow up's at 3275 fps so I had to go to the next node down.

 

[Evan]

I'm selling my 223AI only because of the redundancy between it with 88's and my 6mmBR with 105's. I like the 6mm more and the recoil difference hardly noticeable.

So you found that your 223 with 88s and the 6 with 105s is very similar? That's very reassuring, because my main reason for stepping down to the 22 is to reduce cost. 10cents a bullet is a significant savings. The 6br will never catch up (3k barrel life on 6br, 2k on the 22 and $800 per barrel).

 

[steve123]

So you found that your 223 with 88s and the 6 with 105s is very similar? That's very reassuring, because my main reason for stepping down to the 22 is to reduce cost. 10cents a bullet is a significant savings. The 6br will never catch up (3k barrel life on 6br, 2k on the 22 and $800 per barrel).

I use the 105 hybrids most but I've given thought to trying the Hornady 105 HPBT to practice with to reduce cost, about 20 cents a bullet.

223AI/.55BC is at 2814 in a 28" 7 twist vs 6mmBR/.536BC at 2905 in a 26" 8 twist. The 223AI shoots very good, the 6mmBR did 4.5" vertical for 12 shots at 1025Y last winter and that was off a Harris with me shooting it??!!

 

[dcali]

The trick with the 90s is balancing the twist rate with the velocity to get them right up to the point before they start falling apart. In a .223 that's right around a 7 twist. With a .22 BR, i'd imagine you could/should go a little slower. To shoot them optimally, you really need to dial in the stability or you're just wasting your time giving up too much.

 

[xswanted]

I know a couple of F-T/R shooters that were using "straight" 7 twist barrels in their .223s for 5-600 yard competition. They had (may still have>>>not certain) a BIG problem with blow-ups shooting the 90s.. They were blowing up bullets with BOTH the Berger and the SMKs. They were running them about 2800f.p.s. I am quite certain the .22 BR will spit them out quite a bit faster. If they were shooting 7 twist at 2800 and blowing them up, how much worse will it get going considerably faster? You are talking 600 yards here>>>I am guessing some form of competition. If you're just shooting for fun>>>no worries..

Any word on 95s from a 22 Br? In regards to blowing up.

 

[Evan]

Any word on 95s from a 22 Br? In regards to blowing up.

I've looked high and low and haven't found much. A 95@3000fps from a 1:7 is spinning 310k. A 95@2800fps from a 1:6.5 is also spinning 310k. So it looks like if they are holding up in 223s, they might hold up in the 22BR, if they will stabilize in a 7 twist.

 

[ShootDots]

Any word on 95s from a 22 Br? In regards to blowing up.

Nobody I know of uses a .22BR in F-Class. F-T/R demands either a .223 or a .308 and NOTHING else. In F-Open you could use a .22BR, however, there are so many better cartridges that I know of none ever being used. Having said that, if a .223 will blow them up, then certainly under the stress of competition, a .22BR would exacerbate the situation... A .22BR holds MORE powder, driving the bullet faster, thus making matters even worse. In the end, that may very well be the reason that if there is a .22BR in Open, I have never seen nor even heard of one being used, so it would be rare indeed!

 

[dcali]

Nobody I know of uses a .22BR in F-Class. F-T/R demands either a .223 or a .308 and NOTHING else. In F-Open you could use a .22BR, however, there are so many better cartridges that I know of none ever being used. Having said that, if a .223 will blow them up, then certainly under the stress of competition, a .22BR would exacerbate the situation... A .22BR holds MORE powder, driving the bullet faster, thus making matters even worse. In the end, that may very well be the reason that if there is a .22BR in Open, I have never seen nor even heard of one being used, so it would be rare indeed!

Using more powder to drive them faster allows a slower twist - there's no reason to spin them faster. I think it would make for an interesting F class round, although it'd be practically identical to a 6BR, which is a lot easier to deal with.

 

[xswanted]

Nobody I know of uses a .22BR in F-Class. F-T/R demands either a .223 or a .308 and NOTHING else. In F-Open you could use a .22BR, however, there are so many better cartridges that I know of none ever being used. Having said that, if a .223 will blow them up, then certainly under the stress of competition, a .22BR would exacerbate the situation... A .22BR holds MORE powder, driving the bullet faster, thus making matters even worse. In the end, that may very well be the reason that if there is a .22BR in Open, I have never seen nor even heard of one being used, so it would be rare indeed!

Thank you, I understand the f class rules and the difference between a .223 and a 22 BR, however I’m looking at it for something else.

 

[ShootDots]

Thank you, I understand the f class rules and the difference between a .223 and a 22 BR, however I’m looking at it for something else.

If you are just looking at some form of fun shooting where there are not any long shot strings, there should not be a problem with blow-ups..

 

[xswanted]

If you are just looking at some form of fun shooting where there are not any long shot strings, there should not be a problem with blow-ups..

Probably 10-15 shots max at one time.

I’d go with a 7 twist and try to run the 95 around 2900-2950