What's realistic accuracy expectation of 260 Rem at 1,000 yards?

[Danattherock]

New to the game but had my mind set on a Savage LRP model 12 in 260 Rem. While acknowledging my cart and horse are jacked up, I have already amassed 2,000 Lapua Scenar 139's and enough H4350 to go with.

Not a lot of ranges near me in SC North Carlolina that go out that far. Well, none actually, I should say. But Frontline Defense is a very high speed range that is currently building a 1000 yard range. And Dan Newberry, created OCW, is about 4 hours away and runs events and training at Bang Steel, which allows shooting beyond 1000 yards.

Will the 260 be a good choice for 600-1000 yards? Curious what's realistic. Also, any scope suggestions? I had been thinking about the Bushnell 3.5-21, but see so much preference for Nightforce it makes me wonder. I'm naive, and impulsive, so begging for info here seems appropriate.

My long term interest is designated marksman and practical long range events.


Dan

 

[ShootDots]

First, you are not stating what discipline you are planning shooting at 1000 yards. Benchrest is going to have a higher "minimum", if you will, for what would be "competitive" levels of accuracy. F-Open, although very demanding, does not N-E-E-D that level of accuracy in order to be competitive.

Having said that, I have a .260A.I. that has (one and only time I shot it at 1000 yards) shot 2 / 5 shot groups (load testing) that had 4 shots in the 3-4" range and in each group, 1 shot caused one group to open to "about" 6" and the other opened the group to just inside 5".. I am NOT a Benchrest shooter, neither am I the best long range shot on the market! In the hands of an accomplished BR shooter, I believe it to be capable of under 4" groups.. BUT that is with a custom rifle, excellent loads and the proper scope for the job at hand. In your post you have a "off the shelf" Savage and are considering a low powered scope. I do not think your rifle will be capable of the above level of accuracy and certainly the power on your scope should be CONSIDERABLY higher! Could you shoot at 1000 and have fun>>>without a doubt! However, if your looking at being competitive out there, you are going to have to spend more $$$'s to get to where you want to be..

 

[Danattherock]

The last line of my post states intended usage. But primarily I just want to get in the game so to speak. Both ranges I mention are 3-4 hours away. If I could visit one of them on a given Saturday and hit a 12-15" steel plate at 1,000 yards, I would be happy as a queer in a pecker tree.


Dan

 

[ShootDots]

I think you could do that "fairly" regularly!

 

[Danattherock]

With my current ability and equipment budget ($3000), I would be quite happy hitting 15" plates at 1000. I've shot some 1/4-1/2" groups at 100 yards lately with my Barnes Precision AR-15 with Kreiger 20". Hit a 8" plate easily at 510 with my 300 Wby and fixed 10x. I'm eager to step out a bit further.


Dan

 

[Jet]

Dan

The LRP in 260 with the 139s and H4350 will meet your stated expectations if you do a good load tune on it.

Buy the best optics you can afford for the style of shooting you plan on doing. Almost all mid to high end optics are worth their cost and can be transferred from one rifle to another.

Good Shooting.

Rich

 

[dkhunt14]

If you can't spring for the Nightforce look for an 8x32 Sightron S111 used. Matt

 

[Danattherock]

If I wanted a Nightforce, any suggestions?

Is it a better scope than the Bushnell 3.5-21?

 

[Sniper338]

If I wanted a Nightforce, any suggestions?

Is it a better scope than the Bushnell 3.5-21?

by far!

 

[Sniper338]

I run a 260 tactical... which is a 260 remington with a little longer free bore to seat berger 140s better... it will bang steel easy at 1000. My load shoots cconsistant quarter inch at 200 yards. 5 shots in a dime at 200 most days. I have not shot for a group at 1000 with it yet, i get caught up making noise on the gongs... but i have no doubt if i did my part it would shoot a great group at that range...

260
6.5x47 lapua
6.5 creedmore
6.5x284

they will all shoot 1000 easy...

As far as optics go... scopes are made for certain things so you need to research what you need...

I shoot first focal plane, and fixed 10x power mil/mil scopes for long range stuff.. and steel at 1500 yards is still very doable with a 10 power scope! So high magnification is not always a must! I use higher magnification to read the wind way more than i do actually shooting.

 

[ballison]

Dan,
I was in your situation about a year ago. I took a long range training course in Mifflin, PA last June and have never looked back. Until that point, shooting a deer at 200 yards was unthinkable. Among many other cool things, we shot steel at 1000+ yards, and was able to hit it regularly by the end of the course. I then used the same gun to shoot a few F-Class matches last year. Got hooked on that too! Now my biggest problem is trying to juggle my schedule to shoot both F-class and Precision. Can't figure out which I like best, so until the boss puts her foot down, I'm gonna do both.

Why I posted? That TRG-22 308 is now a 260, and is MUCH more fun and accurate at 1000 yards. Less recoil and higher BC bullets. As for your budget, be careful! If you get bit, you're lucky if you're budget only DOUBLES!

 

[Danattherock]

Thanks Bill and Sniper.

I bought the Bushnell elite 10 mil/mil for the 300 wby in part to learn the mil system. Which the Bushnell Elite 3.5-21 is also, mil/mil, and FFP with H2 reticle. Plan was to use that along with Applied Ballistics software on PDA or Kestrel. The 3.5-21 seems to be quite popular on the PRS and is around $1300-1500. Is the Nightforce better, and if so why. I've never seen either in person.

The events I'm intersted in competing in are primarily 200-1000 yard targets, often of unknown yardage. Mainly shot prone/bipod, but often shooting on other obstacles, simulated roof tops, car hoods, etc. Or so I've heard, I don't know the particulars, but that's the jist of it. Until then, I'm just trying to get familiar with accurate shooting and reloading to help get there, from here.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Some good scope test and reviews which have influenced my thoughts about buying a Bushnell 3.5-21...

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/10/24/best-tactical-scopes-what-the-pros-use/

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/09/19/tactical-scopes-field-test-results-summary/


Dan

 

[MrMajestic]

Dan, If your looking at the Savage platform I would recommend giving Jim at Northland Shooters a call prior to your purchase. You should be able to put together a clone with a Criterion or Shilen barrel for around the same money. You can get a turd from any of them but I think you will have your work cut out for you with the Savage tube, i.e. break-in etc. JMHO

 

[people]

Why I posted? That TRG-22 308 is now a 260, and is MUCH more fun and accurate at 1000 yards. Less recoil and higher BC bullets. As for your budget, be careful! If you get bit, you're lucky if you're budget only DOUBLES!

Doubles just about covers it.

 

[flatlander]

Dan, The first ffp scope I bought was a Bushnell 3.5-21x50, but I got the later model with 10 mil turrets, zero stop, and G2DMR reticle. It's an excellent scope, especially at the price point. I'd probably stay away from the H58 reticle - the crosshairs are just too thick/heavy to suit me, and actually obscure smaller targets, and there's nothing wrong with the less expensive G2DMR reticle. Downside to this scope is that, with 10 mils per revolution, the zero stop isn't really necessary, as 10 mils will take you out to 1100+yds with a 140gr bullet in a 260. IOW, the zero stop would do a lot more good on the scope you're considering, with its 5 mil turrets. But that's the way it is - you'll pay $400+ more for the GZ model relative to the original 3.5-21x50.

OTOH, one of the reasons you see so many PRS shooters using the Bushnell scopes is because some of them are sponsored by Bushnell. There are better scopes out there, like the Vortex Razor HD 4.5-27x56 Gen II, but there's a waiting list a mile long, and they will run you $2500. In the ffp dept, NF has the F1 version of its NXS scope, but it's only 3-15x. To step up to their Beast, or the just-announced ffp version of the ATACR will set you back ~$2800 & up. These prices are another reason why you'll see so many Bushnell 3.5-21s out there - aside from the SWFA SS 5-20x50, there's not much else of comparable quality in the price range.

I've not been a big Savage fan simply because of the lack of DBM and bedding issues. But Manners and Bell&Carlson have worked things out in the bedding area by coming up with aluminum bedding blocks, and PTG sells reasonably priced DBM. So if you're determined to go the Savage route, I'd look for a used rifle, with the intention of replacing the barrel & stock. They used to make a Precision repeater action with a smaller ejection port, but I don't know if it's still available - if it is, that'd definitely be the way to go. Not only is this a stiffer action, but you also get the target version of the AccuTrigger with it.

 

[slm9s]

Sightron makes a first focal plane 6 thru 24. I have one and It's a nice scope. if you are going to be shooting more tactical style matches you might want a lower magnification. If you're shooting bench rest or F class, you want as much magnification as you can get. (IMO)

 

[Danattherock]

Thanks slm,

Yep, this rifle will be more of a tactical gun rather than bench. Appreciate your input. I'm not very knowledgeable on FFP and SFP scope differences. Honestly, it was the review from Precision Rifle Blog I posted earlier that put the Bushnell 3.5-21 in my head.

Found the Savage after searching for 260 Rem after reading the below article. Didn't see any other factory 260 offerings so I figured Savage it is. To say I'm naive as in OP, might be an understatement. Hah.


http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

Dan, The first ffp scope I bought was a Bushnell 3.5-21x50, but I got the later model with 10 mil turrets, zero stop, and G2DMR reticle. It's an excellent scope, especially at the price point. I'd probably stay away from the H58 reticle - the crosshairs are just too thick/heavy to suit me, and actually obscure smaller targets, and there's nothing wrong with the less expensive G2DMR reticle. Downside to this scope is that, with 10 mils per revolution, the zero stop isn't really necessary, as 10 mils will take you out to 1100+yds with a 140gr bullet in a 260. IOW, the zero stop would do a lot more good on the scope you're considering, with its 5 mil turrets. But that's the way it is - you'll pay $400+ more for the GZ model relative to the original 3.5-21x50.

OTOH, one of the reasons you see so many PRS shooters using the Bushnell scopes is because some of them are sponsored by Bushnell. There are better scopes out there, like the Vortex Razor HD 4.5-27x56 Gen II, but there's a waiting list a mile long, and they will run you $2500. In the ffp dept, NF has the F1 version of its NXS scope, but it's only 3-15x. To step up to their Beast, or the just-announced ffp version of the ATACR will set you back ~$2800 & up. These prices are another reason why you'll see so many Bushnell 3.5-21s out there - aside from the SWFA SS 5-20x50, there's not much else of comparable quality in the price range.

I've not been a big Savage fan simply because of the lack of DBM and bedding issues. But Manners and Bell&Carlson have worked things out in the bedding area by coming up with aluminum bedding blocks, and PTG sells reasonably priced DBM. So if you're determined to go the Savage route, I'd look for a used rifle, with the intention of replacing the barrel & stock. They used to make a Precision repeater action with a smaller ejection port, but I don't know if it's still available - if it is, that'd definitely be the way to go. Not only is this a stiffer action, but you also get the target version of the AccuTrigger with it.

Thanks Dennis! Those are exactly the type of insights I desire, and lack. Given the prices, perhaps the 3.5-21 is a good scope for me. The factory Savage seems to get lackluster views here, which I get. But I doubt I could afford much more, $1500-1800 tops. Doubt that will buy much. I need rifle/scope/bipod to be around $3000-$3500. Plan is to upgrade the barrel at some point.


Quick question regarding SSWF scopes, is their 10x a fairly robust scope? I just yanked the Burris Black Diamond 8-32 off my 50 BMG and put it on my Barnes Precision AR-15 with Kreiger 20". I need a scope for my 50, and want a fixed 10 power this time.


Dan

 

[Sniper338]

Quick question regarding SSWF scopes, is their 10x a fairly robust scope? I just yanked the Burris Black Diamond 8-32 off my 50 BMG and put it on my Barnes Precision AR-15 with Kreiger 20". I need a scope for my 50, and want a fixed 10 power this time.


Dan

SWFA scopes are actually really good, and yes they are rated for use on a 50... I have two fixed 10X that I use. They were actually made for the military under a contract that got dropped under the name "super sniper" "SS". Then SWFA picked them up to sale. (from what I understand)... the tracking is perfect on them. but I would not buy the one that DOES NOT have parrellex adjustment. I wouldnt hesitate to buy another SWFA scope. The only down fall with them that I have seen is they arent worth a flip at night time, and not a great warrenty. During the day though no issues at all. I have no experiance with their HD line of glass though, just heard its better. They are hard to beat, or really unbeatable for the price.

Another scope to look at is the Vortex viper PST. its ffp, mil mil etc etc.. around the $800 mark and a lifetime no bs warrenty... like throw it on the ground run over it with your truck and send it back for a new one warrenty..

 

[kevwil]

New to the game but had my mind set on a Savage LRP model 12 in 260 Rem. While acknowledging my cart and horse are jacked up, I have already amassed 2,000 Lapua Scenar 139's and enough H4350 to go with.

Not a lot of ranges near me in SC North Carlolina that go out that far. Well, none actually, I should say. But Frontline Defense is a very high speed range that is currently building a 1000 yard range. And Dan Newberry, created OCW, is about 4 hours away and runs events and training at Bang Steel, which allows shooting beyond 1000 yards.

Will the 260 be a good choice for 600-1000 yards? Curious what's realistic. Also, any scope suggestions? I had been thinking about the Bushnell 3.5-21, but see so much preference for Nightforce it makes me wonder. I'm naive, and impulsive, so begging for info here seems appropriate.

My long term interest is designated marksman and practical long range events.


Dan

140gr bullets from a 260 should be supersonic out past 1400 yards or so, and 6.5mm target bullets have relatively high BC, so it should be great. It really depends on many things like which bullet, which powder, etc. but if your LRP shoots as well as mine has so far, you will be very happy. I haven't measured groups @ 1000 yards yet, but my best 100 and 300 yard groups are less than 1/4 MOA with the factory barrel. I hope you have the same luck!

I'm scope shopping right now as well. I love my SWFA fixed power scopes but I'm looking at the new Steiner T5xi 5-25, Vortex 4.5-27, and Nightforce 5-25 ATACR F1 offerings for my higher magnification long range shooting this year. I'll probably skip the Nightforce due to being the most expensive of the 3 and supposedly having some tunneling issues in the 5x-8x range (which I could ignore if it were less expensive).

Best of luck, and happy shooting!

 

[ballison]

Dan,
I've had two Leupold scopes, one FFP and one SFP. The problem I've had with the FFP, and I've heard others with the same issue, is that the reticle can get really thick on higher magnifications. Unless I'm missing something, the only thing a FFP is good for is to range unknown distance targets. I have since sold the Leupold and put a Nightforce on my 260. Now Leupold makes VERY good glass, but there is no comparison. The Nightforce is much, MUCH clearer (in my opinion), especially at higher magnification. I have a 8-32x NSX on my 260 (prob would go with 5-22 is I could do it over again) and a 15-55 Competition on my FTR rig. They are not inexpensive, but worth the extra $$ (hence my comment about doubling you budget!).