What's next?

[bozo699]

I also do not turn my necks on my dasher and only you a full length bushing die and NO MANDRELS. I think the OPs main issue is the inability to shoot off a really stable platform.

That’s nice if you to offer help through a pm Dave. I use mandrel they do have there place I definitely don’t in this situation Bc’z explained it very well. And having a proper shooting platform and gear I’d crucial! I can’t believe some of the things I see people using to work up loads on
Wayne

 

[Dave M.]

100 yds.

Varget is the powder of choice for most all PRS 6 Dasher shooters. Like 96% of them. This will be for an F-class gun, but still....

32.2 and 32.4 are possible good nodes, but I'm a little wary of burning up my bbl too quick. And they are over published max loads, IIRC....

Jam loads groups opened waaaayyy up. but again that was b4 I got into annealing and mandrel sizing the necks. Bbl manufacturer recommended jammed loads, so....worth another try.

I did dial the scope in after the first 2 groups.

OCW test is useless if you are playing with the scope settings mid test. This defeats the entire purpose of the test.

 

[Dave M.]

That’s nice if you to offer help through a pm Dave. I use mandrel they do have there place I definitely don’t in this situation Bc’z explained it very well. And having a proper shooting platform and gear I’d crucial! I can’t believe some of the things I see people using to work up loads on
Wayne

Agree 100%. Unless he is a fantastic shooter, he’ll never be able to pick a suitable load using just front and rear sandbags.

 

[JFrank]

Or more.

To my understanding, annealing makes the brass consistently workable to get consistent neck tension. The bushing shrinks the expanded (to chamber size) neck down enuf to actually hold a bullet. The mandrel upsizes the internal case neck to a consistent I.D. to get consistent neck tension. As such (so I am told) you don't need to neck turn as the mandrel gave you the consistent I.D. for conssitent neck tension.

That's my understanding anyway. And I'm getting 26-32 in-lb seating pressure this way. And some good single digit velocity S.D.s

I’ve heard that as well.

 

[boltfluter]

Dave is literally giving you the"keys" to the car! My methods are identical. Not that that really matters, but it has served me well for years. Until you get a rock solid bench setup you are just making noise. No offense intended. Good luck!
Paul

 

[GetReal]

I don't want you to take this the wrong way, as I'm trying to help you..

What if I told you that my 6.5cm brass isn't turned, I don't use a mandrel, bushing dies only and it shoots in the 1's consistently with 3 different loads using 2 different bullets, and no they aren't Berger or custom bullets.

I would beleive you. I had a 6.5 CM and I found a pretty good load quite easily without turning, mandrels, or bushing dies. I was using Berger 140 Hybrid Targets.

I tried the same with the 6 Dasher, and no joy.

I do beleive you are tryiung to help me. Thank you. I'l go back and re-read your posts.

 

[GetReal]

Take special note of how little correlation there is between MV ES and group size. Velocity isn’t the end all be all.

My understanding is consistent MV / SD's will affect trajectory and vertical impact over distance, like 600 / 1000 yards.

Beyond that, I agree re: MV. A great SD load can shoot crappy groups.

 

[GetReal]

I also do not turn my necks on my dasher and only you a full length bushing die and NO MANDRELS. I think the OPs main issue is the inability to shoot off a really stable platform.

I may not have a really stable platform, yet. I'm looking at front rests. I got a quality rear bag. I shoot much better groups with 6.5 CM / 224 Valkyrie (where I got good loads) and even 22RF BR - even off an Atlas bipod) . I haven't even played with seating depth yet on this Dasher and beleive once I do, my groups will tighten up.

At least I hope so.

 

[JFrank]

I have seen some pretty darn good groups shot off of a bipod and a rear bag, hang in there you’ll be fine. There are several ways to go about load development whether Shatterlee, Audette or dudette, it doesn’t really matter as long as you find a point of stability those rounds will impact the same spot, how small is up to your refinement.
Annealing weakens/softens brass, your set up may or may not respond to light neck tension mine likes plenty of bullet hold.

(Personally I think it should be a performance based decision )

 

[GetReal]

I have seen some pretty darn good groups shot off of a bipod and a rear bag, hang in there you’ll be fine. There are several ways to go about load development whether Shatterlee, Audette or dudette, it doesn’t really matter as long as you find a point of stability those rounds will impact the same spot, how small is up to your refinement.
Annealing weakens/softens brass, your set up may or may not respond to light neck tension mine likes plenty of bullet hold.

(Personally I think it should be a performance based decision )

Interesting. Others have told me unless I anneal, I'm a poser dork who isn't serious about shooting. No shortage of opinions, I guess. DOES make it difficult to find a path forward....

 

[JFrank]

Interesting. Others have told me unless I anneal, I'm a poser dork who isn't serious about shooting. No shortage of opinions, I guess. DOES make it difficult to find a path forward....

Long Rang br guys shoot arguably the smallest groups in the world and if you ask who anneals and who does not you will get a variety of answers but all have got there through testing.

‘Neck tension changes’ I may wrong on this but anyway you might and I say might’ be able to see the difference on the chronograph but you will definitely see it on paper.

 

[GetReal]

Long Rang br guys shoot arguably the smallest groups in the world and if you ask who anneals and who does not you will get a variety of answers but all have got there through testing.

‘Neck tension changes’ I may wrong on this but anyway you might and I say might’ be able to see the difference on the chronograph but you will definitely see it on paper.

Agreed. During THIS testing, I had neck temsion changes of 6-10 in-lbs and saw no difference in my groups that I could tell.

 

[Dave M.]

I have seen some pretty darn good groups shot off of a bipod and a rear bag, hang in there you’ll be fine. There are several ways to go about load development whether Shatterlee, Audette or dudette, it doesn’t really matter as long as you find a point of stability those rounds will impact the same spot, how small is up to your refinement.
Annealing weakens/softens brass, your set up may or may not respond to light neck tension mine likes plenty of bullet hold.

(Personally I think it should be a performance based decision )

He isn’t using a bipod for the front. Just sand bags.

 

[JFrank]

He isn’t using a bipod for the front. Just sand bags.

That’s ok too, maybe even better right ?
Dave you could probably shoot just as small over a bag as a bi pod.
We all started somewhere.

 

[Dave M.]

That’s ok too, maybe even better right ?
Dave you could probably shoot just as small over a bag as a bi pod.
We all started somewhere.

No way can I shoot as good over a sandbag versus a stand or bipod.
Dave

 

[JFrank]

A front rest is a no brainer, but certainly we can get a decent load worked up with a bag.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Maybe we could get someone to help you if we knew where tri state appalachia is. Plenty here that can give your setup a once over and maybe show you some rest options so you dont have to buy twice. I think a lot of folks put emphasis on things that do not matter to them yet then laser focus there instead of getting better overall form. Examples of this are a chronograph, concentricity checkers, annealers, neck mandrels, uber fancy scales, etc. Until you can see on paper back to back multiple times that annealing is holding you back, stop doing it. Until you can prove neck tension is holding you back stop worrying about it. I can assure you without a proper tracking stock and rest setup, solid bench made of concrete, a sub 5oz trigger with a proven action/barrel, a proven scope, custom bullets and most importantly wind flags with the knowledge on how to read them- none of that stuff really matters in the end.

 

[GetReal]

Maybe we could get someone to help you if we knew where tri state appalachia is. Plenty here that can give your setup a once over and maybe show you some rest options so you dont have to buy twice. I think a lot of folks put emphasis on things that do not matter to them yet then laser focus there instead of getting better overall form. Examples of this are a chronograph, concentricity checkers, annealers, neck mandrels, uber fancy scales, etc. Until you can see on paper back to back multiple times that annealing is holding you back, stop doing it. Until you can prove neck tension is holding you back stop worrying about it. I can assure you without a proper tracking stock and rest setup, solid bench made of concrete, a sub 5oz trigger with a proven action/barrel, a proven scope, custom bullets and most importantly wind flags with the knowledge on how to read them- none of that stuff really matters in the end.

Good stuff. I agree. Maybe this might help....

First I haven't played with seating depth at all yet. ONLY trying to test powder charge amts get some good velocity #'s.

That and....I've gotten into the 0.1's 0.2s and 0.3 consistently in three other calibers. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing good looking groups lie in seating depth adjustment and finding the right powder charge.

Everything else you mentioned is very important. And I've used it all before to have other good success. This 6 Dasher is the longest I've ever taken to find a good load.

Others have been helping me via PM to address the other issues you raise. Beginning with a good quality front rest.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Good stuff. I agree. Maybe this might help....

First I haven't played with seating depth at all yet. ONLY trying to test powder charge amts get some good velocity #'s.

That and....I've gotten into the 0.1's 0.2s and 0.3 consistently in three other calibers. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing good looking groups lie in seating depth adjustment and finding the right powder charge.

Everything else you mentioned is very important. And I've used it all before to have other good success. This 6 Dasher is the longest I've ever taken to find a good load.

Others have been helping me via PM to address the other issues you raise. Beginning with a good quality front rest.

Watch the shadow talkers that cant let their suggestions get vetted in the open

 

[JFrank]

Never trust the whistler ! Lol