I am not happy with my .22mag. I want something with more range and energy in the 150 to 200 yard range for varmints. I am looking at .17HMR .22Hornet and .222Rem. the .222 is more gun than I need because I already own a .243 for long range work. I have read allot of issues with the .22Hornet not shooting well and not being very easy to reload. the .17HMR is a nice rimfire but low on power. I really wanted a Hornet until reading about all the issues. So my thought is this get a custom barrel for my TC Encore in .22hornet with a faster twist then the standard 1:16 or get the .222 and try to slow it down to the .22Hornet speed. The .17HMR is not out of the running but I did own one and sold it do to the fact I did not shoot much at the time. The model 25 savage is another option for the hornet and .222 and a rimfire savage model for the .17HMR. This gun will be the one that gets use around peoples homes. Big booms freak some people out and don't what to tick the land neighbors off around some of the farms I hunt.
What would you buy.
- Thread starter Bigcountry8530
- Start date
Many years ago, I had the same thoughts. I wanted something to shoot gophers out a little further than I was doing with the 22LR and thought the Hornet would be just the ticket. Also thought about the K-Hornet as a possibility since it offered a slight boost over the standard version. After several years of thought and research, I decided the Hornet was foolish, and decided upon the 223 Rem. It shoots the same bullets as the Hornet so no additional cost there. Same primers, so no additional cost. Once fired surplus brass is plentiful, so ad distinct advantage, and could be loaded down to Hornet velocity if desired for about the same cost for powder. Better yet, why bother loading down and not make use of the increased range and performance of the 223. Everything I read stated the Hornet brass can be problematic, short lived and easy to collapse due to very no shoulder and thin neck thickness. Since I now own several 223's, I have never since desired anything smaller.
Suppress your .243 or hold out for the .17 Hornady Hornet. I use the .17 Ackley Hornet for the reduced signature, it is truly an amazing caliber!
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I like the 17HMR, but it's getting expensive to shoot.
My favorite mini-caliber is the 20 Vartarg, based on the .221 Fireball. I think the 20s are small enough, and I prefer the larger neck diameter over the 17 Fireball or 17 Hornady.
To me the .20 Vartarg has the "goldilocks factor" -- not too big, not too small. Quiet, efficient, the case looks like baby PPC.
My favorite mini-caliber is the 20 Vartarg, based on the .221 Fireball. I think the 20s are small enough, and I prefer the larger neck diameter over the 17 Fireball or 17 Hornady.
To me the .20 Vartarg has the "goldilocks factor" -- not too big, not too small. Quiet, efficient, the case looks like baby PPC.
Shootinstick,
If you are going to be shooting a lot of rounds, one of the small 22 center fires would be good. If you only shoot 50 to 100 rounds/year the 17 HMR would also be great. I have a problem with critters that want to eat the fish and frogs in my pond and some groundhogs so the 17 HMR does a great job. For small bodied critters the CCI TNT hollow points are instant death. The ballistic tips stop the groundhogs well. My closest neighbor, 1200 feet away says it sounds like a 22 LR but with a slightly sharper report. The 17 HMR would not require reloading or dies, etc.
Bill
If you are going to be shooting a lot of rounds, one of the small 22 center fires would be good. If you only shoot 50 to 100 rounds/year the 17 HMR would also be great. I have a problem with critters that want to eat the fish and frogs in my pond and some groundhogs so the 17 HMR does a great job. For small bodied critters the CCI TNT hollow points are instant death. The ballistic tips stop the groundhogs well. My closest neighbor, 1200 feet away says it sounds like a 22 LR but with a slightly sharper report. The 17 HMR would not require reloading or dies, etc.
Bill
17 HMR. .......I use it's smaller brother, the 17HM2, because my safe range around home is limited to 100 yds. I've hunted groundhogs since 1965 and this round has really impressed me- low noise and accurate.This round has dropped every hog in it's tracks. I believe the HMR and HM2 share the same 17 grain bullet. A 17 HMR is flat shooting and deadly to 200 yds.
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LHSMITH said:
The 17HM2 hasn't been as widely accepted as the 17HMR. But was LH says is right -- it is effective and accurate (though you will get occasional flyers because of high run-out in the ammo). And the big factor is price: 17HM2 ($7.50/box) is about 60% the cost of 17HMR ($13.00/box)
Forum Boss said:
I got 14K rounds of Eley HMII at $3.75/50! Should be enough to shoot out my CZ 452 Varmint. :
Still may be some deals out there for case/2000 rds. lots.
Longest shot for me on Woodchucks with it is 120 yds. Headshots are mandatory if you want to anchor them with it. Downside is the wind really blows that little bullet about.
If I understand your goals, you want something effective out to 200 yards with a low noise level.
First, the 22 Hornet is not all that less noiser than the 223; it's a matter of degree. If someone is going to get upset hearing the report from a 223 is likely to produce the same result with the Hornet.
The 223 is a far superior cartridge in all aspects and quality rifles abound from light weight sporters to heavy varminters. It's easy to reload, and it's considerably more effective at 200 yards than the 22 Hornet.
Forget the 222, it's a wonderfully accurate cartridge easy to reload but it's on it's way to obsolences. If you going to for the larger cartridge - the 223 is a no brainer vs. the 222.
I'm an avid varmint hunter and have been using the 223 for almost 40 years and highly recommend it.
Depending on the size of the varmints and shot placement, it sounds like the 17HMR is tailored made for what you need (low noise - 150 yards) except for the 200 yards requirement; 200 yards would be difficult, especially in the wind.
In a quality rifle with a quality scope, I've seen some pretty amazing groups shot with the 17HMR. I don't own one but a fellow shooter uses one extensively is quite succesfull with headhots on groundhogs out to 150 yards.
Have you tried the new Hornady V-max ammo out of your 22 Magnum? Reports are that it's very accurate and lethal.
First, the 22 Hornet is not all that less noiser than the 223; it's a matter of degree. If someone is going to get upset hearing the report from a 223 is likely to produce the same result with the Hornet.
The 223 is a far superior cartridge in all aspects and quality rifles abound from light weight sporters to heavy varminters. It's easy to reload, and it's considerably more effective at 200 yards than the 22 Hornet.
Forget the 222, it's a wonderfully accurate cartridge easy to reload but it's on it's way to obsolences. If you going to for the larger cartridge - the 223 is a no brainer vs. the 222.
I'm an avid varmint hunter and have been using the 223 for almost 40 years and highly recommend it.
Depending on the size of the varmints and shot placement, it sounds like the 17HMR is tailored made for what you need (low noise - 150 yards) except for the 200 yards requirement; 200 yards would be difficult, especially in the wind.
In a quality rifle with a quality scope, I've seen some pretty amazing groups shot with the 17HMR. I don't own one but a fellow shooter uses one extensively is quite succesfull with headhots on groundhogs out to 150 yards.
Have you tried the new Hornady V-max ammo out of your 22 Magnum? Reports are that it's very accurate and lethal.
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MrMajestic said:Forum Boss said:
I got 14K rounds of Eley HMII at $3.75/50! Should be enough to shoot out my CZ 452 Varmint. :
Still may be some deals out there for case/2000 rds. lots.
MisterM -- You got a good deal, but I'm not surprised. For a long time you could find 17Mach2 for under $4.00/box at many online vendors. I was quoting current prices from Grafs.com, which includes shipping. One thing's for sure -- 17HM2 (aka Mach 2) is definitely a bargain compared to 17 HMR.
Forum Boss said:
Amen!
Thanks guys I might wait to see what the new .17hornet is like. I really don't want to do wildcats but if one fills the void I would figure out how to do what is needed to make the brass. I am just tring to figure out what reloading kit to buy. Rcbs partners kit rockchucker kit or Hornady.
We solved all our Hornet problems by getting the rifle rechambered to the KHornet, plus realized (says he, somewhat tongue in cheek) a lifelong ambition to have a rifle shooting a wildcat cartridge. As far as brass goes, the KHornet has to be the easiest non-factory chambering there ever was to form brass for - load factory or hand loaded Hornet rounds in the chamber and shoot, and you now have fireformed KHornet brass. Since it headspaces on the rim, it's got to be one of the easiest non-factory cartridges ever to form.
Alternatively, if I wanted something in the Hornet range, a bit different but with factory brass/ammo available, I'd go with a .221 Fireball. Disclaimer - in this crowd I'm a big bore freak; I don't want to go down to a .20 or .17 cartridge. Either the KHornet or the Fireball are a lot of fun with the 35gr hollowpoints available from Midway under their Dog Town brand in 500 round boxes at a VERY reasonable price during their periodic sales. We really like the KHornet, and it has proven to be decidedly untempermental compared to the Hornet.
Alternatively, if I wanted something in the Hornet range, a bit different but with factory brass/ammo available, I'd go with a .221 Fireball. Disclaimer - in this crowd I'm a big bore freak; I don't want to go down to a .20 or .17 cartridge.
Either the KHornet or the Fireball are a lot of fun with the 35gr hollowpoints available from Midway under their Dog Town brand in 500 round boxes at a VERY reasonable price during their periodic sales. We really like the KHornet, and it has proven to be decidedly untempermental compared to the Hornet.CJ6
Silver $$ Contributor
If your not happy with a 22mag a 17HMR is REALLY throwing money away (BTDT). The 22 Hornet is a nice choice as is the 221 Fireball. Part of the trouble with the Hornet is bullets DESIGNED for it are made in 2 different diameters .223 and .224, so knowing what BORE size you have helps in the accuracy dept., also some try to use TOO heavy a weight bullet for the case (35-45 grs is about right) .
K22 said:
Since the OP lists the .222 as one of his choices... .222 Rem. brass and cartridges will be around for a long time. Although only Cooper and Savage are the only domestic companies currently offering the chambering, three of the biggest European makers offer it. Europeans love the cartridge,( .223 is illegal in most of Europe). There undoubtedly must have been an awful lot of rifles so chambered , since it's conception in 1950 because no less than 6 brands of brass, and at least 12 brands of ammo are available. It reigned as Benchrest king for many years for good reason. Lapua had stopped importing the round a short time ago, but do to overwhelming demand it is again being offered.
The .221 F.B. is an excellent compromise, but for sheer accuracy the .222 wins.
I dont have any problem reloading for the 22 hornet. Yes, it is small, and a bit cumbersome to hold the small bullet and run it up into the die. But I just bought a 22 hornet wilson seating die that I hope will take care of that problem. With the wilson die I can just drop the bullet in from the top of the die, and hopefully that will solve some of the problem I am having with bullet runout. I am shooting a Savage model 40 single shot. I love this little gun but I hope I can come up with a load that will let me shoot 1 inch groups. I am having a bit of a problem with fliers it seems. I did find out though that not all the flash holes are the same diameter. I bought some Hornady 35 grain vmax shells, and when I went to resize I found out that the flash holes are smaller. So I knock them out first with my 6mmPPC die, then I resize. What I like about this cartridge is the low recoil that will let me see my hits.(or misses)...I can stay in the scope very easily. This I am hoping is going to be my lightweight carrygun for woodchucks out to 100 yards.
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