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What twist for a 22-250 Ackley?

It's funny how the 14 twist was the standard of they industry for over 50 years, and now for the past couple of years, it's how did you guys ever manage to hit anything, a 14 is fine you can shoot 60gr Vmax's with out even blinking an eye, heck I can even shoot 69gr sierra's with there short bearing surface, they seem to cooperate with a full load of RL17 which ends up being over 3500 fps,

Dean
 
kanuck said:
It's funny how the 14 twist was the standard of they industry for over 50 years, and now for the past couple of years, it's how did you guys ever manage to hit anything, a 14 is fine you can shoot 60gr Vmax's with out even blinking an eye, heck I can even shoot 69gr sierra's with there short bearing surface, they seem to cooperate with a full load of RL17 which ends up being over 3500 fps,

Dean

The 14" twist worked fine for 50+ years, because all we had were soft points and hollow points.

The advent of poly tipped bullets threw a bit of a problem into it - they are longer for their weight, the center of gravity is further back, and the center of pressure is further forward. That makes them harder to stabilize.

The 14" twist is marginal for these poly bullets - some guy's rifles will shoot them, and other guys rifles will not shoot them accurately.

You don't have to go back 50+ years though... the .204 Ruger is a new cartridge, and the standard twist is 12"... but right off the starting line, there were complaints about bullet stabilization problems with the 39gr SBK and the 40gr V-Max.

Some guys rifles would shoot both well (though that was rare), most guy's rifles would shoot the 39gr fine, but not the 40, and some guys couldn't shoot either. Now, guys that are building 20 cal rifles are going 11" or faster.

I had two 204's with 12" twists, and neither would shoot the 39 or the 40 well... I rebarreled the second one with a 10" twist barrel.

I would NEVER pay $2000 for a 22-250 with a 14" twist, unless it was a $4000 rifle and I could afford to have it rebarreled if it didn't shoot 55gr poly's well.

Maybe Cooper would build one with a 12" barrel??
 
CatShooter said:
kanuck said:
It's funny how the 14 twist was the standard of they industry for over 50 years, and now for the past couple of years, it's how did you guys ever manage to hit anything, a 14 is fine you can shoot 60gr Vmax's with out even blinking an eye, heck I can even shoot 69gr sierra's with there short bearing surface, they seem to cooperate with a full load of RL17 which ends up being over 3500 fps,

Dean

The 14" twist worked fine for 50+ years, because all we had were soft points and hollow points.

The advent of poly tipped bullets threw a bit of a problem into it - they are longer for their weight, the center of gravity is further back, and the center of pressure is further forward. That makes them harder to stabilize.

The 14" twist is marginal for these poly bullets - some guy's rifles will shoot them, and other guys rifles will not shoot them accurately.

You don't have to go back 50+ years though... the .204 Ruger is a new cartridge, and the standard twist is 12"... but right off the starting line, there were complaints about bullet stabilization problems with the 39gr SBK and the 40gr V-Max.

Some guys rifles would shoot both well (though that was rare), most guy's rifles would shoot the 39gr fine, but not the 40, and some guys couldn't shoot either. Now, guys that are building 20 cal rifles are going 11" or faster.

I had two 204's with 12" twists, and neither would shoot the 39 or the 40 well... I rebarreled the second one with a 10" twist barrel.

I would NEVER pay $2000 for a 22-250 with a 14" twist, unless it was a $4000 rifle and I could afford to have it rebarreled if it didn't shoot 55gr poly's well.

Maybe Cooper would build one with a 12" barrel??

Cooper will build me one with a 12" twist barrel, I just spoke with them. Basically, they (their custom shop) will build whatever I want as long as I'm willing to pay for it. I'm going with the 12" twist barrel and decided to order the 22-250AI as opposed to the standard 22-250. Now, all I have to do is convince the ground hogs to be patient and wait for me.
 
onelastshot said:
Cooper will build me one with a 12" twist barrel, I just spoke with them. Basically, they (their custom shop) will build whatever I want as long as I'm willing to pay for it. I'm going with the 12" twist barrel and decided to order the 22-250AI as opposed to the standard 22-250. Now, all I have to do is convince the ground hogs to be patient and wait for me.

Good choice, you will love the Ackley!
 
I have just returned from a week of hunting and load testing with my new .220AI. The rifle has a 26" 1:14" Krieger HB.
A few myths regarding 1:14" barrels have been disproved at least in my barrel.
1) The barrel handled the following projectiles with aplomb using RL17 all tested with 45 grains & RWS 5431 primers.
55gr Nosler BT
55gr Sierra SP #1365
55gr Sierra Blitzking # 1455

2) A 1:14" will handle a 60 grain projectile , mine does , shot 2 Red Deer with the 60gr Nosler BT. BTW load was 43grs RL17.
3) My hunting buddy has a M55 Tikka 22/250 standard factory twist 1:14, shoots 63 gr Sierras all day long as well as 55's.
4) all bullets seated to facilitate magazine feed with plenty of jump, don't know how much , don't care they all shot .6-.5" groups.
5) the one bullet that had issues was the 53gr VMAX , loaded with a soft load of 40 grs RL17 to fire form cases bullet holes were SLIGHTLY oval , so ramped up the load to 45.2grs RL17 , problem solved , this load produced the tightest group for 5 shots of 0.473" from fully formed cases and I expect in the hands of a good BR shooter this load will do better or maybe tweak the seating depth but it is a hunting rifle so all loads are to magazine length.

I was so impressed with the 55 grain Blitzking #1455 I went and bought up all the local store had, 900 in total.Incidentally , I ran a 3 shot test over my Magnetospeed using the 55gr Blitzking , the first was a fire form load of 41grains RL17 velocities :
1) 3545
2) 3472
3) 3491 Average 3502.
Second test was 45 grains of RL17 in formed cases, velocities :
1) 3873
2) 3879
3) 3885 Average 3879.
No pressure signs and I reckon I can squeeze another 100 or so fps out of this.
Interesting that the factory standard twist rate for .222-22/250-220Swift is and has always been 1:14" Also interesting is that Nosler list the test barrel for their load data for the .220 Swift 1:14" for projectiles ranging from 34-62 grains. And for the standard 22/250 Nosler list a barrel of 1:14" for all their projectiles except the 60 grain BT, 60 Partition & Varmageddon where a 1:8" twist is used but switch back to a 1:14" for the 64 grain Bonded Solid Base.222 Rem test barrel 1:14" for ALL weight projectiles.

If one intends to shoot projectiles in the lighter range of 40-55 grains , a 12 or 14 twist will certainly handle them and don't be at all surprised if those twist rates will also digest heavier projectiles to 63 grains.
The guy that talked me into a .220AI shoots one as well , he also makes barrels and happened to have a .22 cal 1:16" barrel laying about. So he fitted it up and well b*gger me if it not only shoots 40 grain Noslers BT's at warp speed but handles 55's as well.
Stability Calculators based on pure Math are all very jolly but seldom do they factor in the exceptions to mathematical rules, of which there are many and provide ongoing fodder for interweb debates.
For years the accepted twist rate for .30 cal Palma barrels was 1:14 and there are many shooters still using that twist rate.Then 1:13" A calculator says that the old Sierra 2155 Tug Boat has a stability factor (Sg) of 1.05 from a 1:13 barrel, with an Sg of 1.4 the minimum. Based on this alone one would not choose the 2155 Sierra from a 1:13"barrel BUT I would like a bottle of Glenlivet for every possible shot & Prize Meet won with this combination.Again fashion changed now in Palma barrels the flavour of the month is 1:11 & 1:12" barrels. I currently run a Schneider 1:12 28" in my Palma/Fullbore Rifle and have shot with success the following bullets.
1) Sierra 155 2155 & 2156
2) Nosler 155 CC
3) Berger 155 / 155.5 & 155 Hybrids.
BTW every body knows one MUST have a minimum of 30 inches of barrel to get to 1000 yards with 155 grain projectiles, I guess my Schneider must be the exception to the mathematical rule.
Now a stability calculator says that a Sierra 155 2155 will be stable in everything from a 1:10" to a 1:14" BUT if the Sg exceeds 2.0 one MAY gain SOME accuracy by going to a slower twist. So at a twist rate of 1:10 the Sg factor is 2.98, 1:11" Sg 2.46, 1:12" Sg 2.07, 1:13" Sg 1.76, 1:14" Sg 1.52 ! So which twist rate is more accurate ?

I would humbly suggest that for cartridges such as the 22/250, 22/250 Ack, 220 Swift , 220 Ack that really shine shooting lighter bullets as they were intended a twist rate of 1:12-1:14" will suffice nicely. I one wishes to shoot heavy for calibre/cartridge projectiles, then a faster rate is required ......... but maybe not ! :o

Mike.
 
OneLastShot , get some RL17 and all the POLY TIPPED bullets you can lay your hands on particularly the Sierra 55gr Blitzkings and If they don't shoot, I will buy them from you but the US State Dept & ITAR might prevent shipping them down here.
Give the 53 gr VMAX a whirl too but run em hard !

Mike.
 

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Coolhand said:
OneLastShot , get some RL17 and all the POLY TIPPED bullets you can lay your hands on particularly the Sierra 55gr Blitzkings and If they don't shoot, I will buy them from you but the US State Dept & ITAR might prevent shipping them down here.
Give the 53 gr VMAX a whirl too but run em hard !

Mike.

I will make certain to order a good batch of Sierra 55 polys this week when I order the dies! This waiting is going to be difficult.
 
I have a 14 twist swift with a Douglas barrel, and it doesn't like 55gr poly tips. Tried my hardest, and I can get certain loads with 55 vmax to shoot, but any 60s are out of the question.
It will shoot any 50gr poly tipped bullet very well...

Personally, I'd go with a 12 twist just to be sure.

Oh, and 4007ssc is the best I've found for it. Not much help for you since you won't find it. H414 was great as well, but the temp sensitivity scared me off. I may shoot a load in 10° or 90° and don't want to HAVE to load around weather conditions for a varmint gun.
 
I shoot a 22-250AI with a 1-14" twist barrel. So do 3 of my buddies. All four guns shoot the various poly tipped 55 grain bullets with superb accuracy. Guess we're just lucky.
 
asauer said:
I have a 14 twist swift with a Douglas barrel, and it doesn't like 55gr poly tips. Tried my hardest, and I can get certain loads with 55 vmax to shoot, but any 60s are out of the question.
It will shoot any 50gr poly tipped bullet very well...

Personally, I'd go with a 12 twist just to be sure.

Oh, and 4007ssc is the best I've found for it. Not much help for you since you won't find it. H414 was great as well, but the temp sensitivity scared me off. I may shoot a load in 10° or 90° and don't want to HAVE to load around weather conditions for a varmint gun.

Spoke with the people at Cooper. For the 22-250 and the 22-250AI they now recommend and use as their standard twist, a 12" for these two cartridges. I don't anticipate shooting anything heavier than 60 grain bullets and this twist should be the perfect solution.
 

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