What to build????

[Phil]

Koie Dokie.......

I will be building a varmint gun around the 50gr. Vmax bullet.

I`m right at decision making time,it`s either going to be a .223AI or a .22BR.

Which one would build and why?.........


I`m leaning pretty hard in one direction,but i just like to get some other opinions... ;D

 

[STS]

What kind of varmints? High volume shooting or 1 shot here and there? What range are you typically shooting? Does the rifle need to feed from a magazine or not? And so on and so on. More details please.

 

[bheadboy]

fwiw, my opinion not everyones

lookin at the velocities, you can expect 3600+/- 100fps with each depending on bbl length.
-powder for the 223ai is around 4-5 gr less, brass is cheaper, but and must be formed, etc.

the 223AI should feed and br may or may not, if you want a repeater, the 223 is the better choice

the 22br would be better in a longer bbl

if you choose to step up in bullet weight the 22br will have an edge on the smaller case

the 223ai is usually accurate but not equal to the 22br

if you are intending to shoot 400+ yds i personally would go br

Bob

 

[Phil]

What kind of varmints? High volume shooting or 1 shot here and there? What range are you typically shooting? Does the rifle need to feed from a magazine or not? And so on and so on. More details please.

Small,brown,furry ground dwelling beasts...

High volume category and feeding is NOT a concern.

 

[DennisH]

the 223AI should feed and br may or may not, if you want a repeater, the 223 is the better choice

the 22br would be better in a longer bbl

if you choose to step up in bullet weight the 22br will have an edge on the smaller case

the 223ai is usually accurate but not equal to the 22br

if you are intending to shoot 400+ yds i personally would go br

Bob

+1

 

[Con]

22/204 ... prevents messing about with fire-forming brass, commonly available brass from a few sources, rifle remains as an ever reliable repeater if required.
Cheers..
Con

 

[CatShooter]

Small,brown,furry ground dwelling beasts...

High volume category and feeding is NOT a concern.

For high volume, the 223 AI is the way to go - barrel life is almost forever, and cases can be had very reasonable (when this panic is over). And you can use stiff fire forming loads for small brown furry ground dwelling beasties

You will get ~3,550 to 3,600 without working hard.

 

[22BRGUY]

If you enjoy cycling the bolt a lot, 223AI is the way to go; If best accuracy is more important, BR is the way to go.

 

[DogBuster]

Unless you have a stash of 50 V's...go to the 53 V....

8-9 twist 223 AI.....53 V max and a formed case full of IMR8208

or Benchmark...turns furry things inside out a long ways away...

 

[CatShooter]

If you enjoy cycling the bolt a lot, 223AI is the way to go; If best accuracy is more important, BR is the way to go.

In a field of "Small,brown,furry ground dwelling beasties..." no one, no matter how good they are at a match, will ever see the difference in a field... and the difference between paying $1.00 a case, or 8 cents a case will mean the difference between fun and abandonment.... or miserly shooting.

It is obvious that you have never shot a Dog Town.

 

[bheadboy]

with or without dog town experience your questions are valid,

if your distances are to be 400+/- or less then the 223AI is all you need.

if your distances are to be consistantly beyond 400, which may not be the case in your area, then the 22br is a superior choice.

feeding singles, is no big deal as you get too fast and the bbl begins to heat up even with the 223ai. also the beast seem to like to duck often after a neighbor is shot. some will come look but it does not take long for them to get a little spookie.

bob
Bob

 

[22BRGUY]

If you enjoy cycling the bolt a lot, 223AI is the way to go; If best accuracy is more important, BR is the way to go.

In a field of "Small,brown,furry ground dwelling beasties..." no one, no matter how good they are at a match, will ever see the difference in a field... and the difference between paying $1.00 a case, or 8 cents a case will mean the difference between fun and abandonment.... or miserly shooting.

It is obvious that you have never shot a Dog Town.

You are correct Cat...22BR cases do cost around a buck apiece, but I have reloaded mine up to 35 times before the primer pockets get too loose. "Fun" I think is in the mind of the shooter. I do enjoy making longer range precision shots, whether on paper, coyotes, or varmints. To kill as many as I can has little value or fun to me....but to each his own. To me its about shooter, ammo, rifle performance. I'd rather make 25 or so precision and challenging shots than 200 fast and furious and wonder how the throat of my barrel looks, but there again, to each his own. Best wishes to you sir.

 

[SmokinJoe]

One issue not mentioned is that the cartridge boxes for the 223AI are considerably smaller than for the BR (I shoot both), so when you are carrying a couple thousand rounds for a big PD shoot it is a lot easier to carry the 223 size ammo. I don't think that there is a practical difference between the 2 cartridges in the field & good brass is available for both. I like the 53 V-Max & have converted a couple of my rifles to 1-10 twist barrels to accommodate that bullet. I also have a couple Dakota Predators with 1-10 twist that shoot the 53 V-Max very well. So for PD shooting, I would go with the 223AI.

 

[CatShooter]

You are correct Cat...22BR cases do cost around a buck apiece, but I have reloaded mine up to 35 times before the primer pockets get too loose. "Fun" I think is in the mind of the shooter. I do enjoy making longer range precision shots, whether on paper, coyotes, or varmints. To kill as many as I can has little value or fun to me....but to each his own. To me its about shooter, ammo, rifle performance. I'd rather make 25 or so precision and challenging shots than 200 fast and furious and wonder how the throat of my barrel looks, but there again, to each his own. Best wishes to you sir.

If you take equal quality barrels, and equal spec'ed reamers, and build two rifles with all the same quality work and accouterments, and Lapua cases, I don't think you would see much (if any) difference in aggs over a season between the two rifles.

But take them to a dog town in SoDak, or an open hay field in Pennsylvania, at unknown distances, without the 150 yellow spinning daisies and wind flags, the sighters when you want them, and without the fixed in place target, and shoot off of a Harris Bi-pod in the dirt, instead of a 35 pound coaxial front rest on a concrete table, and a squishy rear bag, instead of a bunny ear bag...

... and you won't see any practical difference between both of those custom rifles, compared to a good quality over the counter varmint rifle.

The BR guns sound great on paper, but at 400 to 500 yds, when chasing a ground hog in a windy hay field, it is all theory, and worth nothing...

... they all miss with equal grace, and leave you embarrassed in front of your friends.

 

[MarkS]

Phil,

223AI. The best thing about the 223AI, you can kill and fireform at the same time.

Mark Schronce

 

[22BRGUY]

Lets all hope that this "panic" is over soon. From what I've been reading, I'm not quite as optimistic about it but we can all hope.
Best Wishes all

 

[Danger]

I hope this sheds some light for you I Have both the 22 BR will out shoot the 223 AI but not very much !!!!!! The 223 AI was never on my build list till I built one for a friend and when I was shooting it It opened my eyes ... They are fast and talk about easy OOO My gosh but here is what makes me say 223 AI they shoot just as good when fire forming the impact is with in .250 of the full house AI loads . Treat yourself and try AA 2200 with 28.0to 30.0 and a 40 gr V Max It rips Hope this helps DD

 

[22BRGUY]

with or without dog town experience your questions are valid,

if your distances are to be 400+/- or less then the 223AI is all you need.

if your distances are to be consistantly beyond 400, which may not be the case in your area, then the 22br is a superior choice.

feeding singles, is no big deal as you get too fast and the bbl begins to heat up even with the 223ai. also the beast seem to like to duck often after a neighbor is shot. some will come look but it does not take long for them to get a little spookie.

bob
Bob

+ 1 for this post. I don't know how experienced phil is at this sport, but maybe asking what kind of distance he hopes to shoot would also help. I shot 22 250s for about 30 years with 55s at fox, coyotes, woodchucks, crows and thought it was the greatest....until I shot 22BRs with 75s and 80s.....especially at longer range. Whether phil chooses 223AI or 22BR, it might be helpful to know what ranges he hopes to shoot with the 50 Vmaxes.

 

[Phil]

Been doing this a while....... 8)

I have in my stable a .20 Bobcat 32vmax at 4000fps

.222 40 vmax faster than it should be

.223 40/50 vmax 40`s at 3800+ 50`s at 3600+

.22BRDX 53 vmax new/velocity to be determined

.22 Dasher 75 amax 3400+

6 Dasher 65 vmax

6 Dasher 75/87 vmax

6 Dasher 105 amax


The .223AI OR .22BR would be tweeners,but since I already have dies for both to make cases for other guns, I figured why stray too far from the norm.....

As for the distance on the 50vmax.....400yards would be few and far between,i have guns better suited for that,besides I`m figuring that my son will soon be old enough to tag along with us and I could use something for him to call his own.

Phil.

 

[22BRGUY]

Thanks for info Phil...You probably have as much or more insight to what would work best for you than most of us with that kind of arsenal. Sounds like your son is a lucky blessed boy.
Best Wishes whatever you choose.