What the hell????
- Thread starter schleutj
- Start date
Bone stock Remington 700 cdl 30-06 spotter weight barrel bottom left target shots 5 and 6 opened up the group
178eldx with 62gr. Rl26 cci200
Bone stock Remington 700 in .222, 10 shots (2 per bull, not counting the crossfire from my neighbor) at 200 yards. 24.0gr H322, Bruno 52gr FB, Rem 7-1/2. Note how much the wind moves the bullets on the sighter.
Only accurate rifles are interesting, whether factory or custom.
Only accurate rifles are interesting, whether factory or custom.
Agreed only accurate rifles are interesting.
But back to the OP'S question of failed accuracy lends to not having crimped his second batch of ammo vs the first batch.
My response and belief is the change in recipe. He changed something.
FWIW I have stopped crimping.
Edit, if I were to dig up my old thread I may have posted weather conditions of test.
If I'm not mistaken it was calm and we didn't have any tornados that day.
And in case you think Remington's big game rifles won't shoot as well as their varminters, here's my pre-Africa sight-in of my Remington 700 Sendero in .300 Winchester Magnum, 76.4gr H4831sc, Barnes 180gr TSX .050" off the lands, WLR primer, 200 yards. One shot per bull except for target 5 (fouler + 2 sighter shots touching).
Believe whatever you wish, but changing from crimp to no crimp simply will not produce the increase in groups ("patterns" might be a better description) that the OP saw. Something else is (dreadfully) wrong.
Possibly I was reading back through original thread 2 in 1 out where I originally posted up target. A lot of responses to bedding, scope based, trigger, check for clean and free float of barrel
So yes all these variables need to be checked and rechecked.
And maybe reload 10 rounds and crimp half to see what results are.
With what I know I agree with some of the posts here. I think it has to do with neck tension and pressure. I am shooting a Remington 700 thebonly thing I have done is put it in a bc Stock and added a 2 stage timney. I took 10 uncrimped and 10 crimped rounds out today. I didn’t have a lot of time so the groups are not the best. I and the gun can do better. This is to give an idea. I fired in groups of 5 crimped and then no crimped then crimped and no crimped. First target is crimped and second is uncrimped.
DirtySteve
Gold $$ Contributor
1) Check to make sure your action screws are tight.
2) check to make sure you scope base screws are tight.
3)check you rings and make sure everything is tight.
4) Check you make sure your barrel is free floating...
Some thing is a miss..
2) check to make sure you scope base screws are tight.
3)check you rings and make sure everything is tight.
4) Check you make sure your barrel is free floating...
Some thing is a miss..
Overall length is same? The uncrimped needs more pressure most likely. Get a chrony and compare.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Its not hard to take a rifle that isnt tuned and shoot an 8” group at 300 when you add in conditions. As you can see in his further tests it shoots a huge group crimped and uncrimped, add in some reverses and some mirage and it turns into a rifle that needs help compared to his first group that could be akin to those wallet groups that can never be replicated again losing the star lineup that helped the first time
I might have missed it, but did it get worse after the stock change? obviously something is wrong, short of a jacked up barrel or manufacturing issue the most common accuracy culprits I've come across when fitting a stock is, binding in the mag box, barrel channel pressure and the most overlooked is not fitting the front guard screw correctly, (too long). Check your bottom lug on the bolt for a light scratched line (contact from the front guard screw) it can turn a shooter into a shotgun.
Liven The Dream
Gold $$ Contributor
I have been shooting NRA Matches for 30 years. I have won plenty over the years. I shot Service Rifle then AR Match Rifle for 18 years , NEVER Crimped a round for a Gas Gun …..
This is a idea ! I would Prep all New Brass . I would Prime and weight sort . I have bushing Dies to hold neck tension . I weigh very charge , For 200 and 300 yards Bullets where Mag length . In AR type Rifles 80gr. bullet where .020 . I used Fed. 205 M primers at 600 . White Box Win. at 200 -300.
off.
I tested very New Lot of Powder . I shot 5 shot groups at 300 yards when possible , 200 when not.
I only crimp when loading for semi-autos: .223, 6X45 and 224 Valkyrie....don't see the point otherwise. Also when I used to load handgun rounds.
I shoot a lot of improved 6BR and can't imagine that adding another variable to the pressure equation could do anything but harm. My $.02.
I shoot a lot of improved 6BR and can't imagine that adding another variable to the pressure equation could do anything but harm. My $.02.
One thing not mentioned in the crimp or not crimp discussion is case length.
Variations in case length will have substantial effects on amount of roll or taper crimp. The factory crimp is less problematic.
The elephant in the room already mentioned is that crimping inevitably deforms the bullet. This adds additional variability from all those little things that make the neck in one case slightly different than the next.
Hence, crimping is most frequently done when it either needs to be or the reloader thinks it is a good idea. All of us have done the latter and some have discovered that crimping usually is not needed with rifles displaying modest recoil.
Variations in case length will have substantial effects on amount of roll or taper crimp. The factory crimp is less problematic.
The elephant in the room already mentioned is that crimping inevitably deforms the bullet. This adds additional variability from all those little things that make the neck in one case slightly different than the next.
Hence, crimping is most frequently done when it either needs to be or the reloader thinks it is a good idea. All of us have done the latter and some have discovered that crimping usually is not needed with rifles displaying modest recoil.
Guys, so far the smallest group that the OP has posted is 2 MOA. This is not a crimp problem -- this is a "system" problem with the rifle/ammo/shooter.
A decent factory rifle shooting factory ammo by an experienced shooter in readable conditions should be well under 1 MOA, and often under 0.5 MOA for aggregate accuracy (not wallet groups).
Something ain't right, and this isn't a "detail" problem like neck tension or case length. The problem(s) is(are) much more fundamental than that.
For heaven's sake, a shooter with his first 6PPC cobbled together some load with Varget (!) and 69gr Bergers and did this on his first trip to the range:
If your rifle can't shoot like that (above) with an out-of-tune load at 100 yards, worrying about crimping or neck tension is an exercise in futility and frustration.
A decent factory rifle shooting factory ammo by an experienced shooter in readable conditions should be well under 1 MOA, and often under 0.5 MOA for aggregate accuracy (not wallet groups).
Something ain't right, and this isn't a "detail" problem like neck tension or case length. The problem(s) is(are) much more fundamental than that.
For heaven's sake, a shooter with his first 6PPC cobbled together some load with Varget (!) and 69gr Bergers and did this on his first trip to the range:
If your rifle can't shoot like that (above) with an out-of-tune load at 100 yards, worrying about crimping or neck tension is an exercise in futility and frustration.
It's ok to experiment, just don't always expect it to be a success. Go back to what worked for you.
Does seem to be a bit extreme for just a crimp missing though. Looks like the groups I got when I had a loose scope ring
edit - You might want to pull that scope off and try it on a different rifle. I had an experience last fall when suddenly one session my tried and true loads were all over the targets. To make a long story short it turned out to be a internal issue with the scope. Happy ending, Leupold fixed it
Does seem to be a bit extreme for just a crimp missing though. Looks like the groups I got when I had a loose scope ring
edit - You might want to pull that scope off and try it on a different rifle. I had an experience last fall when suddenly one session my tried and true loads were all over the targets. To make a long story short it turned out to be a internal issue with the scope. Happy ending, Leupold fixed it
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