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What Next for Remington & Rem 700?

jdh47 said:
Remington ushered in the demise of the Winchester Mod.70 with effective cost cutting and good advertisement. Their offering was accurate and well finished, easy to rebarrel and proved the darling of the accuracy community.
I'll get flamed for this but the extractor is a weak point and the trigger could've been improved on. Ejection works against accuracy. CNC machining was great for straight actions but finishing costs money and unions are a detriment to production. You can't time actions with labor that can't understand what they're working on between breaks.
Remington suffered from one bad management decision too many and got the same treatment they gave Winchester years ago. I hope they bring it back with some refinements that actually enhance it rather than just screw it up.
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I simply think Remington was competing against Winchester and others and came up with the simple to make, cheaply finished 721/722 series, and ultimately the 700. The extractor on the 721/722 actions was a weak point and god help you if you break one and don't have a replacement. In the end they accomplished what tons of folks wanted...a cheaper hunting rifle that was accurate. Many of those folks just weren't in tune with the finer firearms available and most prolly couldn't afford it. No criticism, just fact of life for many.

Regarding a 721/722 being well finished, well I guess you can't say they were roughly finished, but they were just a cheap to make design and they look it. They are good functional rifles though. I still have two and getting the barrels clean is a chore and when I borescoped them I now know why....lots of tool marks and roughness. But for roughly 79 bucks back then what should anyone expect?
 
jdh47 said:
Remington ushered in the demise of the Winchester Mod.70 with effective cost cutting and good advertisement. Their offering was accurate and well finished, easy to rebarrel and proved the darling of the accuracy community.
I'll get flamed for this but the extractor is a weak point and the trigger could've been improved on. Ejection works against accuracy. CNC machining was great for straight actions but finishing costs money and unions are a detriment to production. You can't time actions with labor that can't understand what they're working on between breaks.
Remington suffered from one bad management decision too many and got the same treatment they gave Winchester years ago. I hope they bring it back with some refinements that actually enhance it rather than just screw it up.
Click to expand...
A number of years ago the University of North Carolina did a study of union vs. non- union construction projects. The union projects were completed more timely, and wages were higher, the non-union projects took longer and wages were lower. In the end the profits were about the same. The thing about union construction workers is they are more skilled and proficient, simply because they work at the same trade on every project. A plumber today, an electrician tomorrow, and operator the next doesn't increase proficiency. Also is the person taking a job without aptitude for the work. If covered by a retirement program a worker has more of a vested interest in developing a skill. If any industry can't get employees with the needed skills or attitude it's is usually due to wages being to low. My experience is in the construction industry, both as a union worker and a union representative.
 
I dont know what fine model 70s yall have been looking at but every one ive seen from that era looked like they were made with an angle grinder and the triggers were an elementary school physics project made with a mill bastard file. The push feed actions were a huge leap forward in finish.
 
The XTR model 70s were to my eye very nicely finished. Traditionalists might call them gaudy and over the top. I like them but design and subdued form and finish more. The model 70 trigger is a study in robustness and simplicity, easy to access and clean. The fact that the three position safety is still copied is a testament in itself. The late production guns in the early 60s did have fit and finish issues compared to earlier rifles no question. By the early 70s the new haven push feed rifles were de-bugged and were a fine looking and handling and shooting machine. I’ve bought them when prices were downright cheap because too many avoid them due to the horrid ones made right after the switch to push feed up till the early 70s. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but anyone who thinks the 721/722s or the early win push feeds fit that bill has been drinking too much cheap mescal.
 
jdh47 said:
Remington ushered in the demise of the Winchester Mod.70 with effective cost cutting and good advertisement. Their offering was accurate and well finished, easy to rebarrel and proved the darling of the accuracy community.
I'll get flamed for this but the extractor is a weak point and the trigger could've been improved on. Ejection works against accuracy. CNC machining was great for straight actions but finishing costs money and unions are a detriment to production. You can't time actions with labor that can't understand what they're working on between breaks.
Remington suffered from one bad management decision too many and got the same treatment they gave Winchester years ago. I hope they bring it back with some refinements that actually enhance it rather than just screw it up.
Click to expand...

Yup, unions are trash. Protect crappy workers and keep the awesome ones performing the status quo. More pay and benefits, for less work. Somethings broken in a company when your employees are held less accountable and paid more than the managers.
 
Kittitas George said:
A number of years ago the University of North Carolina did a study of union vs. non- union construction projects. The union projects were completed more timely, and wages were higher, the non-union projects took longer and wages were lower. In the end the profits were about the same. The thing about union construction workers is they are more skilled and proficient, simply because they work at the same trade on every project. A plumber today, an electrician tomorrow, and operator the next doesn't increase proficiency. Also is the person taking a job without aptitude for the work. If covered by a retirement program a worker has more of a vested interest in developing a skill. If any industry can't get employees with the needed skills or attitude it's is usually due to wages being to low. My experience is in the construction industry, both as a union worker and a union representative.
Click to expand...
Not really relevant to compare a construction project with an established continuing MANUFACTURING and ASSEMBLY facility. Not buying it. Pun intended. A valid comparison would be Tesla or the Alabama Hyundai plants to GM. Try those ones.
 
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I noticed MidwayUSA has the Remington 71/2 small rifle primer back in the line-up of primers listed, a few months ago they put discontinued on them. I hope this means Vista plans on making them again!
 
Iowa Fox said:
That's a good sign Dusty. 7 1/2 primers
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No, pistol ammo. Im getting sick of people that shoot a box of 9mm every 10years asking me to load em up some. Cant buy em at academy so they finally gotta break down and shoot those reloads. Nope cant load any nines for you- oh you only need a box?
 
Dusty Stevens said:
I dont know what fine model 70s yall have been looking at but every one ive seen from that era looked like they were made with an angle grinder and the triggers were an elementary school physics project made with a mill bastard file. The push feed actions were a huge leap forward in finish.
Click to expand...

Which era? In general, the pre 64s were well made, and the early post 64 push feeds were decent. Like many gunmakers, QC was spotty though the 90s and early 2000s until they went to CNC.
 
Having just built, a New, Varmint / steel plate, FUN, Rifle for about, $2,300.00 Total cost ( Rem 700 SS, CNC'D, action, HS Prec Stock, 1 lb Jewell trig, Criterion Hvy Sporter Bbl., PTG Lug & CrownRidge Nut, 6.5 X 20 Scope, etc. ) in 6 XC ,..
I can tell you that, the New 700 RR SS actions, are,.. SUPERB ! ( Extraction, kinda poor,.. sadly ).
Action, Threads / Face, all seem, Square to PTG lug, Crown Ridge Nut, ! Lugs, "lapped in", easily !
The Criterion barrel shoots, sub 1/2 MOA with, the 87 gr. V-max's & 80 gr. Sierra Varmt Blitz's.
The 108 gr. Berger Elite hunters, "shoot" in the 3's ( all touching ).
Won't win any Matches as,.. you gotta, SPEND MORE for,.. THAT !
 
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Idaho-Lefty said:
Having just built, a New, Varmint / steel plate, FUN, Rifle for about, $2,300.00 Total cost ( Rem 700 SS, CNC'D, action, HS Prec Stock, 1 lb Jewell trig, Criterion Hvy Sporter Bbl., PTG Lug & CrownRidge Nut, 6.5 X 20 Scope, etc. ) in 6 XC ,..
I can tell you that, the New 700 RR SS actions, are,.. SUPERB ! ( Extraction, kinda poor,.. sadly ).
Action, Threads / Face, all seem, Square to PTG lug, Crown Ridge Nut, ! Lugs, "lapped in", easily !
The Criterion barrel shoots, sub 1/2 MOA with, the 87 gr. V-max's & 80 gr. Sierra Varmt Blitz's.
The 108 gr. Berger Elite hunters, "shoot" in the 3's ( all touching ).
Won't win any Matches as,.. you gotta, SPEND MORE for,.. THAT !
Click to expand...

So does the "new" M-70 CRF in 33-28 Nosler I built--except feeding and extraction are excellent. The action is 5ish years old and untouched. I found a RUM follower and magazine box and chambered the #4 barrel myself. It is bedded in an B&C "Extreme Weather" stock. Wears a Leupold 4.5x14. Weighs 8.5 lbs all together and shoots 225 TTSXs at 3170 fps into 1/2" groups. I also have about $2300 into it.

I would like to think that when the gunmakers went to CNC that quality and consistency dramatically improved. Everyone I came across that has a "new" M-70 (2008ish and later) talks about how well they shoot.
 
I went with,. the Rem 700 action, BECAUSE,.. I already HAD, an HS Precision, Rem 700 stock,.. LOL !
And, I wanted to try, a Criterion RemAge, "PreFit", barrel in, 6 XC .
OTHERWISE, for trouble free, awesome accuracy, light weight "Huntability", SMOOTH action, good Triggers, etc.,. I'm SOLD on, TIKKA's as, there's NOTHING BETTER for under,.. $1,200 / $1,500 in a Rifle !
IF they made, a 6 XC,.. I would have bought one !
 
As a "Lefty", I never, "warmed up" to, Winchester's, Rifles ( sorry ! ).
Saved my Money and bought, 2 LEFT Handed,.. Mk 5, German made, Weatherby's when younger.
A Lefty, .270 Wby Mag and a .338 Win. Mag Custom W/ Douglas Premium bbl, on another Lefty, MK 5 action.
Also, have owned, 4 Rem 700's, in LEFT Handed !
 
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