what neck turning tool do I need not for f class shooting?

[milboltnut]

I just shoot a M70 and 721, 300 Weatherby vanguard. Are factory chambers even close to F class chambers?

 

[jcm24m]

Just about all the other neck turners. Get a Sinclair or 21 Century

 

[chromatica]

21st Century micro-lathe, hands down!

 

[milboltnut]

Chromatica.... how you figure that?

 

[Oso]

21st Century Neck Turning Lathe - either powered or run with hand drill.
http://www.xxicsi.com/powered-neck-turning-lathe2.html
http://www.xxicsi.com/neck-turning-lathe-complete.html

Great timing for question.... this happened to me today. In August 2018 I purchased the 21st Century's powered neck lathe as well as a second tool head to work on a different cartridge with a different shoulder angle. Apparently, I mistakenly ordered 2 of the same tool heads. Fast forward (+2 years), I discover my mistake when I went to switch out too heads a couple of weeks ago from 20VTG to working on 17-222 cases. I gave 21st Century a call to see if there was a Hell Mary of Hope. Kevin volunteered for me to mail it back and swap it out for the tool head that I wanted with no hassle or questions asked. I am even getting to upgrade it to different package (pay the difference). This is great customer service, especially in the middle of industry shortage!!!

You can't beat their gear or customer service.

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

@milboltnut, thanks for starting this thread. I’ve been wanting to learn about neck turning tools so I’m enjoying this debate. It’s not hard for me to accept that a Hornady product is a good value, but their marketing strategy is not usually to produce the best of anything as far as I can tell. Usually they are looking for market share at a low price point. Why should this tool be any different?

EDIT: The OP changed the original post and even the title of this thread — previously “what beats Hornady neck turning tool?” — so some of the replies including mine are now a bit hard to follow because the context changed.

 

[BeefyT11]

1. The 21st uses shoulder angle specific cutters
2. The 21st uses expander mandrels and turning mandrels that are a matched set.
3. The 21st lathe set up has a floating case head. This allows the case to resist binding and run a more parallel cut.
4. The 21st has 5x finer adjustments
5. The 21st is all machined parts not cast.

Are they more expensive... Yep... are they worth every penny... yep...

 

[Bc'z]

on the Hornady you can adjust the rear spindle to have minimum clearance to remove the case, and the clicks adjustment dial for the cutter, and the spring loaded drive shaft. The ones you listed don't. 21st Century is 250 Hornady is 160 waaaayyy better unit, NUFF said !

But you dont get the case holder that you posted a thread about.
You know the 21st century case holder.

 

[savageshooter86]

IDOD. Mic drop

 

[creedfan]

y’all forgot pma

 

[SierraCJ5]

I'm very fond of my K&M turning tools. Very precise and easy to achieve great results.

Neck Turning Tools and Accessories | Best Neck Turning Tools

Neck Turning Tools and Accessories | Best Neck Turning Tools | We offer a wide range of neck turning tools for many calibers.

kmshooting.com

 

[nakneker]

After researching neck turning tools years ago I bought a 21st Century and have had zero regrets. Before looking around too much I bought a hornady neck turning tool which I still have and have never unwrapped. If you want it Milboltnut I’ll send it your way for 50.00 shipped, it’s just sat on my shelf.

 

[Patriot007]

IDOD hands down.

CNC Version of the IDOD

On the cheaper side 21Century or K&M. I went with the K&M set up because I could get every thing in Carbide. 21Century is just as good, but, every thing is in stainless steel. The plus is,, it's cheaper to replace, and I have to say that I have fell in love with the 21Century expanding mandrel kits.

 

[6MMsteve]

I bought the horny when i first got back into shooting and sold it bout 2 wks later got a simple K&M works fine for me...then I bought peterson brass and the nk turner is collecting dust

 

[BoydAllen]

I have a number of neck turning tools. Sinclair, K&M, Stiller, and PMA Tool. I have used a Nielsen but do not own one. With a sharp cutter, with a workable angle, and a carbide mandrel any hand held tool can turn good necks. The main difference is how hard they are to set accurately, and how comfortable they are to operate. Specifically, I do not like the Hornady design for a couple of reasons, the main one being that their is no provision for the back of the case to float as the neck is being turned, and also that there is no useful indexing system that reads to .0001. The other thing that irritates me is that they do not offer an expanding die and mandrels. At least I did not find one. Generally, my necks turn to about +- .00005 with most reading to the same ten thousandth, so I think that I may have the hang of it. There are a lot of little details that can improve results. I learned them all, except one, by trial and error, before there was an internet. Both 21st and PMA make great stuff. Looking at the 21st it looks good to go, and his workmanship is top drawer. My PMA is a very fine tool that I can easily recommend. Either company's case drivers are better than the rest. I have both.

 

[milboltnut]

21st Century Neck Turning Lathe - either powered or run with hand drill.
http://www.xxicsi.com/powered-neck-turning-lathe2.html
http://www.xxicsi.com/neck-turning-lathe-complete.html

Great timing for question.... this happened to me today. In August 2018 I purchased the 21st Century's powered neck lathe as well as a second tool head to work on a different cartridge with a different shoulder angle. Apparently, I mistakenly ordered 2 of the same tool heads. Fast forward (+2 years), I discover my mistake when I went to switch out too heads a couple of weeks ago from 20VTG to working on 17-222 cases. I gave 21st Century a call to see if there was a Hell Mary of Hope. Kevin volunteered for me to mail it back and swap it out for the tool head that I wanted with no hassle or questions asked. I am even getting to upgrade it to different package (pay the difference). This is great customer service, especially in the middle of industry shortage!!!

You can't beat their gear or customer service.

I've necked turned and stay away from the shoulder, so I can't see the tool head being an issue.

I have a number of neck turning tools. Sinclair, K&M, Stiller, and PMA Tool. I have used a Nielsen but do not own one. With a sharp cutter, with a workable angle, and a carbide mandrel any hand held tool can turn good necks. The main difference is how hard they are to set accurately, and how comfortable they are to operate. Specifically, I do not like the Hornady design for a couple of reasons, the main one being that their is no provision for the back of the case to float as the neck is being turned, and also that there is no useful indexing system that reads to .0001. The other thing that irritates me is that they do not offer an expanding die and mandrels. At least I did not find one. Generally, my necks turn to about +- .00005 with most reading to the same ten thousandth, so I think that I may have the hang of it. There are a lot of little details that can improve results. I learned them all, except one, by trial and error, before there was an internet. Both 21st and PMA make great stuff. Looking at the 21st it looks good to go, and his workmanship is top drawer. My PMA is a very fine tool that I can easily recommend. Either company's case drivers are better than the rest. I have both.

Is .0000 really necessary ? I cut .000 and measured to see within .001 to a half a thou. Handheld is too tedious. And another guy mentioned a floating head, (and I would think with you wanting .0000) why mention handheld turners?

1. The 21st uses shoulder angle specific cutters
2. The 21st uses expander mandrels and turning mandrels that are a matched set.
3. The 21st lathe set up has a floating case head. This allows the case to resist binding and run a more parallel cut.
4. The 21st has 5x finer adjustments
5. The 21st is all machined parts not cast.

Are they more expensive... Yep... are they worth every penny... yep...

1- stay away from the shoulder, simple.
2- no comment LOL
3- You really think a lathe or milling machine, without a floating head is not precise enough? Fitting machined parts is one thing, but the neck alone? what about the rest of the case?
4- do you really need it? Or has that marketing pitch won people over?
5- Ok my Lee classic press is total junk than. NOT !

Patriot007....... That's a bit over the top $$ wise and is it really necessary? I mean at the bench? DOes it really improve accuracy? Besides, I'm not in F class shooting, I'm just palying with my M70 and 721

@milboltnut, thanks for starting this thread. I’ve been wanting to learn about neck turning tools so I’m enjoying this debate. It’s not hard for me to accept that a Hornady product is a good value, but their marketing strategy is not usually to produce the best of anything as far as I can tell. Usually they are looking for market share at a low price point. Why should this tool be any different?

I noticed accuracy improvement with thier seater dies... Maybe thier mainstream isn't equipment, but I think the tool does a great job. I am not in F class shooting and never will be.

 

[LHSmith]

1- stay away from the shoulder, simple.



Patriot007....... That's a bit over the top $$ wise and is it really necessary? I mean at the bench? DOes it really improve accuracy? Besides, I'm not in F class shooting, I'm just palying with my M70 and 721

1/ Actually a cut INTO the shoulder is desired to eliminate a donut.
2/ If these are for factory rifle chambers, why would one turn necks? For me it's the biggest PITA of reloading, but for the competition I am involved in it's a necessity.

 

[milboltnut]

1/ Actually a cut INTO the shoulder is desired to eliminate a donut.
2/ If these are for factory rifle chambers, why would one turn necks? For me it's the biggest PITA of reloading, but for the competition I am involved in it's a necessity.

besides by eye, how can you tell if the donut is gone? When you say donut, you mean not concentric? Dial indicator on the shoulder?

 

[jimmymac]

For a guy with such strong opinions, how could you not possibly know what a donut is?

I’d suggest listening more and talking less.

 

[BeefyT11]

I've necked turned and stay away from the shoulder, so I can't see the tool head being an issue.


Is .0000 really necessary ? I cut .000 and measured to see within .001 to a half a thou. Handheld is too tedious. And another guy mentioned a floating head, (and I would think with you wanting .0000) why mention handheld turners?

1- stay away from the shoulder, simple.
2- no comment LOL
3- You really think a lathe or milling machine, without a floating head is not precise enough? Fitting machined parts is one thing, but the neck alone? what about the rest of the case?
4- do you really need it? Or has that marketing pitch won people over?
5- Ok my Lee classic press is total junk than. NOT !

Patriot007....... That's a bit over the top $$ wise and is it really necessary? I mean at the bench? DOes it really improve accuracy? Besides, I'm not in F class shooting, I'm just palying with my M70 and 721


I noticed accuracy improvement with thier seater dies... Maybe thier mainstream isn't equipment, but I think the tool does a great job. I am not in F class shooting and never will be.

Dude, if you don't wanna even try to be receptive to what anyone has to say. Buy your hornady turner. Write up a detailed report to post on the forum, to help persuade the next person with the same question that they're being ridiculous in considering anything else. Get to turning and be happy. There are threads upon threads on turners on here, most mentioned are 21st century, k&m, and pumpkins as being the elite. And sinclair as being a great alternative at a lower price point. It's not in very good taste to ask for an opinion and then argue with every point someone brings up. I am in no means a competitive shooter but I trust there opinions on everything in the shooting world, especially equipment