What makes a mild load?

[KMart]

A down side of finding a too mild load is that you don't have enough pressure to expand the case mouth to seal the case to the chamber upon firing. This will give you a large crease in the shoulder of the case and soot down the case body. At that point it is too mild.

 

[SD guy]

They state them as the mildest load because that the least amount of the powder that can be used and have it still operate safely. Powder burns at a controlled rate called "deflagration". When it's underloaded, if it lights, it can lead to a "detonation", which is just as explosive as it sounds. You can have serious problems or a blown up gun with underloaded charges. Without going into a bunch of specifics, it acts like you tried to fire the gun with a bullet stuck in the barrel. There's no reason to go below the minimum charge with any powder.

For the most part, a mild load can vairy widly. Yes the load will be less than max pressure. Your choice after that. We could range from subsonic to something just shy of max pressure. Then anything between those two extremes may still qualify for a mild load in my book. With such a wide brush stroke, I would wager most of us are shooting a mild load.

 

[dellet]

What makes a mild load versus a hot load?

I'd mainly like to know what makes a mild load. Right off hand I would think any load that pushes a bullet thru the barrel could be a mild load. So I guess you get into different powders, how much powder pushes the bullet thru the barrel in such a manner that it causes the bullet to spin in such a manner that it consistently hits what being aimed at.

So I keep seeing mild load data that says unsafe or dangerous......why is that, is it because it won't push the bullet thru the barrel or what

Can anyone educate me?

Can you put that in context?
What was the rest of the statement or load data.

 

[357Mag]

What makes a mild load versus a hot load?



“ I keep seeing mild load data that says unsafe or dangerous......why is that ?

Can anyone educate me?

Mike -

Howdy!

As for your last question, above……

There are circumstances and situations where a reloader can assemble and shoot cartridges that produce “ Secondary Explosive Effects “. ( S.E.E. )

This can happen when large capacity cases are loaded w/ reduced loads of slow
“ burning “ powder. I have also read where the situation is more prevalent in large calibre cases .40” cal & above. At least…. That’s what I’ve read. In such instances….

The “ reduced “ powder load detonates, instead of burning…. producing catastrophic over-pressure; which can damage the rifle and the shooter.

There are better descriptions of S.E.E. out there… the Net being one source.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[Webster]

Thanks for the response

So what you mainly think is that it comes down to pressure, then after that enough pressure (grains of powder) that will push the bullet out the barrel with enough spin to consistently hit where you aim

Forget this idea of what it takes to push a bullet down the barrel. Max loads are related to the strength of the actions steel. plus a safety margin. How much pressure it takes to damage or blow up the rifle.

The reloading manuals are tested data for safety. What's a max load in one rifle may not be safe in another.

 

[Leo_B]

Are all loads listed in modern (as in latest volume available) mainstream reloading manuals safe?

Is there a difference between mild and reduced?

My answers would be yes* and yes.

*They are presumed tested and presumed safe to the extent we can know, not having been there at the time. A prudent and reasonable person will presume every load printed and listed in a current edition manual is safe.

So let's call the lowest printed and listed load in manual X, Y or Z, take your pick, load A. Let's call the maximum load, also printed and listed in the same manual, load B.

Load A is a mild load. It may be STOUT and knock your arm out of socket but it is still a mild load, for that specific cartridge. Load B is definitely not a mild load. Somewhere along the line from A to B is a cutoff point where the loads go from being mild to not mild, again for that specific cartridge. We can only consider one specific cartridge at a time for mild or not mild.

Reduced loads are loads using specifically less powder than the load A listing. Hodgdon has a white paper on doing just this with H4895 powder. It starts with, I always forget if it's 70% or 60%, of the powder listed for load B, and is definitely reduced below the load A listing. Trail Boss is their other powder they have a white paper on and it is the other in the 60% or 70% question. Interesting stuff and reduced. Also mild, of course, because it is a reduced load.

 

[Mike8623]

Thanks to all that have responded, I appreciate you taking the time to answer.

 

[searcher]

They state them as the mildest load because that the least amount of the powder that can be used and have it still operate safely. Powder burns at a controlled rate called "deflagration". When it's underloaded, if it lights, it can lead to a "detonation", which is just as explosive as it sounds. You can have serious problems or a blown up gun with underloaded charges. Without going into a bunch of specifics, it acts like you tried to fire the gun with a bullet stuck in the barrel. There's no reason to go below the minimum charge with any powder.

Yes - good reason to NOT undercharge a case (the manuals are pretty good at calling the "minimums"), particularly with light bullets and slow burning powder. I followed a near-but-over minimum load in the first Barnes manual with their bullet. The recoil was SO much more violent with that 235-grain bullet over my full-power 300 grain loads, I was suspect of the load and quit shooting. Barnes subsequently put out a warning on that particular load and removed that powder from their manual for that load. That was my first real brush with pre-detonation, using a lighter load. I always pick the faster powders for light loads now, even when following the manuals.

 

[450BM]

There are "mild" or "reduced" loads, and then there are squib loads, often a cast lead bullet over a few grains of fast shotgun/pistol powder like Red Dot or Bullseye. Many of them give great precision....

Every year our local range holds their John C. Garand CMP match, and a lot of guys use old military rifles (03A3 Springfields, M98s, etc.) with squib loads for the "Vintage Military" classification...

I call a squib load one that didn’t fully ignite the powder and didn’t go boom. I’ve done it in 45-70 with 3031 loaded under min charge. A couple fired fine, then we got a couple that were obvious squibs with one chronographed at 134.5. Yeah, had to squint at that one, at first I thought it read 1345 which wasn’t a bad velocity and then I looked closer.

I don’t load squib loads on purpose, I load a lot of reduced loads with cast bullets using pistol powders.

Back on topic
A reduced load is going to be starting at min or below min using published load data. May or may not cycle an automatic.

A mild load is usually a load you’re developing and it’s your discretion to what mild is. For instance, I load a 225gr cast to around 1600 fps in my 308. It’s a mild load I can shoot all day. This load will also cycle my AR-10’s. I have a buddy that loads the same bullet in his 300BO and it cycles his AR-15 with a suppressor on it. Mild load. I have a mild 9mm load with a 105gr round nose that cycled my Ruger P-85 perfectly but nothing else will. (And I sold the P-85, like an idiot…) I also play with 44 mag a lot but mostly with reduced and mild loads. The hot loads just aren’t any fun.

So I guess for your 50 Beuwolf, I’d start with the lightest bullet and min charges to see if operates your gun. Then you can go from there.

 

[wright brothers]

Search h4895 mild reduced,
you'll have some reading.

 

[ELR LVR]

They state them as the mildest load because that the least amount of the powder that can be used and have it still operate safely. Powder burns at a controlled rate called "deflagration". When it's underloaded, if it lights, it can lead to a "detonation", which is just as explosive as it sounds. You can have serious problems or a blown up gun with underloaded charges. Without going into a bunch of specifics, it acts like you tried to fire the gun with a bullet stuck in the barrel. There's no reason to go below the minimum charge with any powder.

This is true, detonation can occur since both Nitrocellulose as well as the Nitroglycerin itself are both
explosives
Yet we give them conditions that allow them to burn "Deflagrate"
The same as C4 can also simply be burned without it exploding
----
When the primer flashes over the whole length of powder column such as when a load is too light
it can provide a condition where you get an Explosion (detonation) instead of burning
Where ALL of the powder burns at once instead of a controlled burn
Or so much powder burns at once the vessel cannot contain the pressure built
A similar thing can also happen such as if too heavy of a bullet is used for the powders burn rate
---
Light loads should be approached with caution
Using the correct type of powder is important
it is something I have experimented with in certain cases such as 223
as well as fireforming wildcat loads
it can be risky unless you have some experience with the powders you are using
even then, some of the most experienced people have had accidents happen
---
If you are looking for light loads, do a good bit of research with what others have used successfully

 

[Mike8623]

We used to use c4 to heat our c rations in nam...you always used to check your claymores before setting out at night so you make sure all the c4 was there

 

[ELR LVR]

We used to use c4 to heat our c rations in nam...you always used to check your claymores before setting out at night so you make sure all the c4 was there

Just dont stomp out the fire if the enemy approaches , right?
I read some Sgt or someone did that when some guys were heating their meal
ran over saying "You stupid M'fers" and started stomping out the fire not realizing they were using C4 for fuel

 

[Bottom Fodder]

To one of your question.: In a large Capacity case where the very reduced load the Cartridge laying on its side as it would Chambered and ready to fire that reduced load could/ would no completely cover the primer which could cause “ flash over” igniting more powder at once which which can greatly increase pressure

 

[charlie b]

So, having fired many thousands of cast bullet and reduced jacketed loads a few points need to be made.

1. What people call a 'SEE' can come from several things. Keep in mind it is a controversial topic since the mfgs and reloaders with pressure measurement instruments have not been able to duplicate many of the claimed incidents. They usually come from a low load density, a faster burning powder, near max level. I have actually had this happen to me with a Colt 45 and Blue Dot at near max load (the gun was not damaged, nor was anyone hurt). The situation is one where you can create air space between the primer and powder, which makes more of the powder burn instead of a 'gradual' combustion. It is NOT a detonation. It can be destructive but most times it is not. Many cases could be traced back to possible double loads vs a 'SEE'. I have also had a couple of those

2. Some powders (mainly ball) do not like to be downloaded. They do not become dangerous, they just don't provide consistent results. Hodgdon used to have a bulletin out on this topic concerning H110.

3. Lower density loads can be position sensitive, especially below 60%. The problem is the powder can move forward and expose the flash hole (re #1). I have had a lot of experience with this condition and it will play havoc with your ES/SD. Some will load a filler (small tuft of dacron) to hold the powder against the primer (NOT COW or other shotgun/BP filler!).

4. Reduced loads can be useful. MOA level accuracy is fairly easy given the right powder and load density. I had fairly consistent MOA loads with my .308 using cast loads. Powders included IMR4198, 3031, 4064, Varget, and several others. Notice I used all stick powders as they seemed to perform better in this situation.

5. Lyman has a bunch of reduced loads listed for cast bullets. Those loads will, in most cases, work for jacketed as well. Several folks have measure pressure and velocities of cast vs jacketed bullets. Sometimes the cast load is higher pressure, sometimes the jacketed is. Same with velocity variation. Hodgdon also lists some reduced loads, mainly with H4895.

6. The most dangerous part of reduced loads is not having enough pressure to get the bullet all the way out of the barrel. Some of the reduced loads have very little recoil so it is easy to miss. Obviously a bullet in the barrel when a second shot is fired is a recipe for disaster. On really light loads I would pull the bolt and look through the bore if I didn't see a bullet impact on target.

7. If you want to stay in the realm of manufacturer approved loads then please do stay above the minimums listed in the reloading manuals.

 

[Mike8623]

Thanks so much

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Mild: adjective 1. Gentle in nature or behavior
2. Moderate in action or effect
Makes me think felt recoil or terminal bullet action.

 

[Homerange]

To me and just to be different, a mild load gives less recoil and easily achieved with a lighter projectile going faster than a heavier load.
One just needs be careful with projectile selection if one is to reliably and humanely tip over your quarry.