What is typical barrel life for 6 BR?

[Danattherock]

Just shot out my first 6 creed barrel, literally, at PRS match this weekend. Have three Brux MTU 26” 1:7T blanks and want to find caliber with longer barrel life and hopefully one thats less finnicky to load for. Had to chase lands aggresively with 6 creed. Heard 6 BR might be a good choice, but very limited insights. Largely wondering if barrel life is a major benefit in changing over to 6 BR. Tentative plan would be to push 105’s at 2850-2900 with Varget. Appreciate any insights.

 

[brxbrad]

2500-2800 rnds has been my experience. Very easy to load and tune.
1:8 twist or faster, Lapua Brass, 105's of your choice, CCI 450's, 30 grns varget will get you around 2850 fps.

 

[22DASHER]

For PRS I would much rather have the extra velocity of the 6 Creedmoor than the extra barrel life of the 6 BR. No doubt that the 6BR will get you a few hundred more rounds but the 6 Creedmoor will give you more hits. Well unless you are a wind expert...I’m not.

 

[jr600yd]

The problem with the 6BR for PRS matches is feeding thru the magazine. Some have problems with that short fat case. I’d look at the 6XC.

 

[Sheldon N]

I'm running both Dasher and 6BRA in PRS, the last few with the 6BRA. I think the 6BR would be a great option, depending on what type of matches you shoot. Where it would make me a bit nervous is out past 1100 yards where you might be transonic and where the energy on target would be pretty low. I already notice that when shooting heavier plates out a distances beyond 1000 yards, and my velocity is a bit higher than the 6BR would be.

You'll get a big barrel life upgrade from your 6 Creed, and much less needing to tweak the load over the life of the barrel. I went 2k rounds on my last Dasher before I pulled it, and never chased the lands or really changed the powder charge until the last 200-300 rounds. A 6BR is going to be even longer than that, probably closer to 3000 rounds. I wouldn't try for 2900 fps though, plan on 2825-2850fps. Dasher will be 2950 to 2975 fps, and while the 6BRA can make those speeds I would say a bit lower is the safe thing. I'm going to my next match this weekend in Utah at 2935fps with a 105 with the 6BRA.

Personally I like having that extra 100fps from the BRA or Dasher, gives a bit more energy on target and a bit longer distance before you go transonic. For me the "why" is more about low recoil, constistency of load, and stupid good accuracy. I don't notice the wind drift difference, I shoot side by side with guys who shoot both Dasher w/ 105's and faster 6x47's with 115's and the extra 0.1 or 0.2 of wind drift is a very small thing in the grand scheme of a match.

 

[Performance Shooting]

Two top gunsmiths both told me they start to go the other way at 1500 rounds...meaning the benchrest guys change at around 1500, F-Class guys can usually get a bit more.

 

[Danattherock]

Thanks guys.

Sheldon, our goals are same. Additionally I am trying to spot more shots, so BR is appealing. Along with barrel life so I can train more. With 6 creed I nursed it just to get through three months worth of matches, 90% of my 1700 rounds were in matches. I need to be able to shoot 50% training. 6 BR sounds like a go. Any projectiles you might suggest. Got a bunch of 110 smk, 110 jlk, and 108 eld, 2k of each. Picking up 105’s no big deal though. Thanks for any additional insights.

 

[urbanrifleman]

243 with N160, and don't load it hot might actually outlive a 6BR. I don't know that for a fact, but I was really stunned at the lower nodes and the 243 with N160. It just shot great from the very bottom to the top speed. You could shoot the 3050 node and be in low gear and the powder burns so clean and cool.

 

[Sheldon N]

Sheldon, our goals are same. Additionally I am trying to spot more shots, so BR is appealing. Along with barrel life so I can train more. With 6 creed I nursed it just to get through three months worth of matches, 90% of my 1700 rounds were in matches. I need to be able to shoot 50% training. 6 BR sounds like a go. Any projectiles you might suggest. Got a bunch of 110 smk, 110 jlk, and 108 eld, 2k of each. Picking up 105’s no big deal though. Thanks for any additional insights.

I'm running pointed 105 Hybrids for my match loads. Check out Steve @ McGee Stocks as a good source for those. I tried the 110 SMK's in my 6BRA and couldn't get them to shoot quite as well. I have another guy I know who runs the 110 JLK's in Dasher and has done well with them, won one of the national PRS matches earlier this spring. I'd say see what your rifle likes best then make the call whether you prefer the lesser recoil/higher velocity of a 105, or the slight wind advantage of the 110's.

As far as training, I've spun that off to a 223 trainer that's the same as my match rifle. Lots easier to burn a bunch of rounds for practice without the barrel getting super hot, and way faster to load on a progressive press, and cheaper too. I'm probably 3:1 practice/match for round count.

If you've got the $ for projectiles and barrels, being able to train with your match rifle would be pretty sweet though.

 

[Danattherock]

Thanks man, I am tracking. Recently got MPA 223 trainer with Kelblys tactical atlas, feeding it 77 smk via Dillon 550. Just want more practice with match caliber than 6 creed allowed. Wind practice mainly. If 6 BR, with my 26” 1:7T would shoot my pile of 108 elds, 110 smk, and 110 jlks, would be awesome. But going to 105’s not end of world. Heard anything about 105 RDF? Will follow up on your above suggestion as well. Thanks again.

 

[Delfuego]

No doubt that the 6BR will get you a few hundred more rounds but the 6 Creedmoor will give you more hits.

Few thousand more rounds and a couple dozen more loadings out of your brass...

 

[Sniper338]

Find a good smith... and do a 6XC set up for 105s.. you wont look back.

 

[SteveOak]

243 with N160, and don't load it hot might actually outlive a 6BR. I don't know that for a fact, but I was really stunned at the lower nodes and the 243 with N160. It just shot great from the very bottom to the top speed. You could shoot the 3050 node and be in low gear and the powder burns so clean and cool.

Do you have a list of burn temperatures for powders that you could share with me please?

 

[Thumper]

I currently have just over 2,200 rounds on my straight BR, last week I shot a 600 yard F class match. Conditions were breezy but manageable and very little mirage. I finished up with 597 35x. First relay was 200 15x. There is still some life left it the Kreiger, I previously had Hart with the same reamer that went over 2000 rounds very accurately.

 

[Delfuego]

North of 2500 and still shoots like this...

 

[urbanrifleman]

Do you have a list of burn temperatures for powders that you could share with me please?

http://www.leroyrifleandpistolclub.org/powder-heat-potential.html

MakeProductPotential
1.)VihtavuoriN530 4100 kJ/kg
2.)VihtavuoriN540 4100 kJ/kg
3.)IMR4895 4080 kJ/kg
4.)HodgdonH4895 4060 kJ/kg
5.)HodgdonVARGET 4050 kJ/kg
7.)VihtavuoriN550 4050 kJ/kg
10.)IMR4227 4040 kJ/kg
11.)VihtavuoriN560 4020 kJ/kg
12.)AccurateAccurate 1680 4018 kJ/kg
13.)NormaURP 4017 kJ/kg
14.)Hodgdon50BMG 4010 kJ/kg
15.)RamshotEnforcer 4005 kJ/kg
16.)AlliantReloder-10x 4000 kJ/kg
17.)HodgdonH322 4000 kJ/kg
18.)VihtavuoriN110 4000 kJ/kg
19.)AlliantReloder-15 3990 kJ/kg
20.)AlliantReloder-17 3990 kJ/kg
21.)AlliantReloder-22 3990 kJ/kg
22.)HodgdonBL-C2 3990 kJ/kg
23.)AlliantReloder-19 3980 kJ/kg
24.)HodgdonH335 3980 kJ/kg
25.)WinchesterWXR 3980 kJ/kg
26.)HodgdonH380 3970 kJ/kg
27.)Norma203B 3957 kJ/kg
28.)RamshotX-Terminator 3950 kJ/kg
29.)RamshotTAC 3950 kJ/kg
30.)Norma200 3940 kJ/kg
31.)IMR4007 SSC 3935 kJ/kg
32.)IMR8208 XBR 3920 kJ/kg
33.)RamshotBigGame 3920 kJ/kg
34.)AlliantReloder-7 3910 kJ/kg
35.)IMR4198 3910 kJ/kg
36.)RamshotHunter 3910 kJ/kg
37.)HodgdonBenchmark 3900 kJ/kg
38.)Norma203 (old) 3900 kJ/kg
39.)Norma201 3894 kJ/kg
40.)IMR4320 3890 kJ/kg
41.)AccurateMagpro 3880 kJ/kg
42.)HodgdonH414 3880 kJ/kg
43.)IMR3031 3880 kJ/kg
44.)IMR4064 3880 kJ/kg
45.)Winchester760 3880 kJ/kg
46.)NormaMRP 3873 kJ/kg
47.)HodgdonH4831SC 3870 kJ/kg
48.)HodgdonH4831 3870 kJ/kg
49.)HodgdonH4198 3860 kJ/kg
50.)Norma202 3852 kJ/kg
51.)Norma204 3852 kJ/kg
52.)IMR7828 3850 kJ/kg
53.)IMR7828 SSC 3850 kJ/kg
54.)VihtavuoriN130 3850 kJ/kg
55.)Winchester748 3840 kJ/kg
56.)AlliantReloder-12 3830 kJ/kg
57.)AlliantReloader-50 3820 kJ/kg
58.)AccurateAccurate 2495 3810 kJ/kg
59.)AccurateXMR 3810 kJ/kg
60.)AlliantReloder-25 3810 kJ/kg
61.)HodgdonH870 3810 kJ/kg
62.)AccurateAccurate 4350 3790 kJ/kg
63.)Vihtavuori24N41 3785 kJ/kg
64.)RamshotMagnum 3775 kJ/kg
65.)Norma217 3766 kJ/kg
66.)HodgdonH4350 3760 kJ/kg
67.)IMR43503760 kJ/kg
68.)AccurateAccurate 2015 3754 kJ/kg
69.)VihtavuoriN140 3750 kJ/kg
70.)VihtavuoriN150 3750 kJ/kg
71.)WinchesterSupreme 780 3750 kJ/kg
72.)IMR4831 3720 kJ/kg
73.)AccurateAccurate 2230 3710 kJ/kg
74.)HodgdonRetumbo 3710 kJ/kg
75.)HodgdonUS 869 3700 kJ/kg
76.)VihtavuoriN170 3700 kJ/kg
77.)AccurateAccurate 2460 3690 kJ/kg
78.)VihtavuoriN120 3650 kJ/kg
79.)VihtavuoriN133 3650 kJ/kg
80.)VihtavuoriN160 3650 kJ/kg
81.)HodgdonH1000 3630 kJ/kg
82.)VihtavuoriN165 3600 kJ/kg
83.)Vihtavuori20N29 3580 kJ/kg
84.)AccurateAccurate 3100 3550 kJ/kg
85.)AccurateAccurate 3100 3550 kJ/kg
86.)VihtavuoriN135 3550 kJ/kg
87.)AccurateAccurate 2700 3545 kJ/kg
88.)HodgdonHybrid 100V 3545 kJ/kg

Might explain why people are seeing much variance from barrel to barrel depending on the powder they choose to campaign. Varget and H4895 are right there at the very top. Maybe it is not the cartridge as much as it is the high energy powders everyone is using in these little cases trying to get velocities. They might actually be better off with a bit bigger case with a cooler powder.

 

[SteveOak]

Urbanrifleman, Thank you so much for posting the list. It will be quite helpful to me.

Since we seem to have gone there I will open the discussion. Hopefully my efforts will be seen as a search for the correct information and I won't need to drag out my flameproof suit but here we go.

The units for each line item above are kj/kg, kilojoules per kilogram. The numbers would be the same if the units were j/g, joules per gram as you have divided each side by 1,000.

My understand is that a joule is a unit of energy, and has no direct inference to temperature.

joule
jo͞ol/
noun
plural noun: joules

1. the SI unit of work or energy, equal to the work done by a force of one newton when its point of application moves one meter in the direction of action of the force, equivalent to one 3600th of a watt-hour.

If you look at the above list for VV N5XX compared to the N1XX; powders are the 'high energy' version in the general burn rate range. For example;

Vihtavuori N130 3850 kJ/kg and Vihtavuori N530 4100 kJ/kg

Vihtavuori N140 3750 kJ/kg and Vihtavuori N540 4100 kJ/kg

Vihtavuori N150 3750 kJ/kg and Vihtavuori N550 4050 kJ/kg

VV markets theN5XX powders as being the 'high energy' version in the general burn rate range.

There may be a correlation between energy and the temperature at which the powder burns but I don't think kj/kg or j/g expresses burn temperature.

 

[Delfuego]

Lets try to stay on topic.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Lets try to stay on topic.

It is on topic. The point being that if you use N133, N140 or N150 instead of R15, Varget in your 6BR you might see a much better barrel life.

 

[Sheldon N]

Heard anything about 105 RDF? Will follow up on your above suggestion as well. Thanks again.

Have a bunch, haven't been super impressed. I only use them for when I want to burn practice rounds on older barrels, or fireforming.