What is the deal with Berger?

[ridgeway]

What is the deal with extreme differences from lot to lot? I am finishing up one of the first lots of 105 Hybrids. They measured. 2432" at the shank and. 2434" at the pressure ring. I opened up a new lot that was made late 2011. They measure .2431" at the shank and .2437" at the pressure ring! Its like seating a expand iron each time I seat a bullet!

I've heard of several other guys having similar problems with fat bullets. What's the deal? Not caring about QC? Its getting to the point its unacceptable!

 

[butchlambert]

Chuck,
What did they tell you?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

.0003'' is extreme?

 

[Steve Blair]

I've seen that much lot diameter variation and up to .050" length in larger bullets. Tooling changes, component changes, different dies, adjustments, etc., all cause differences in the end product. That's why they separate them into lots.

 

[butchlambert]

What are you measuring with? If you are using 10th indicators I would worry about the measurement. The only way to accurately measure them in a home shop is to use a height gauge with a quality indicator. You need gauge blocks and a good fixture to hold your bullets during measurements.
I agree though with sleepygator. That is why I shoot the same lot in matches.

 

[6BRinNZ]

.0003'' is extreme?

+1

.0001 and .0003 is unacceptable lot to lot variation?

Sounds expensive for a manufacturer to stay inside those lot to lot tolerances....not sure that I would want to pay the premium.

 

[savageshooter86]

That is why most shooters buy a lot of the same lot # ask they will be more uniform. Same with powder and primers. Can't expect same stuff years later

Sell them on here to us ;D

 

[ridgeway]

Chuck,
What did they tell you?

Its industry standard.

.0003'' is extreme?

My first lot is acceptable. My second lot has a fat +7 tenths pressure ring, which is 6 tenths larger than the shank. The only thing holding the bullet is the pressure ring.

What are you measuring with? If you are using 10th indicators I would worry about the measurement. The only way to accurately measure them in a home shop is to use a height gauge with a quality indicator. You need gauge blocks and a good fixture to hold your bullets during measurements.
I agree though with sleepygator. That is why I shoot the same lot in matches.

Starrett 1" micrometer that reads in tenths. I do shoot the same lot in matches. My good lot is almost gone. The new lot has a .2437" pressure ring. The pressure ring goes into the neck first and acts like an expander when seating, lol.

 

[butchlambert]

Chuck,
You will have to do what the rest of us do. Adapt.

 

[ridgeway]

Chuck,
You will have to do what the rest of us do. Adapt.

I know. That's what I'm doing...I turned. 0005" off my necks and went down a bushing and got uniform seating pressure. I'm going to start load testing with them. My other issue is, my freebore diameter is .2435". I don't have a problem with sticking bullets, but I'm sure the fat .2437" pressure ring contacts my freebore diameter when fired. Henriksen is fixing me up a new reamer, so a remedy is in the works.

 

[6BRinNZ]

Chuck,
What did they tell you?

Its industry standard.

.0003'' is extreme?

My first lot is acceptable. My second lot has a fat +7 tenths pressure ring, which is 6 tenths larger than the shank. The only thing holding the bullet is the pressure ring.

What are you measuring with? If you are using 10th indicators I would worry about the measurement. The only way to accurately measure them in a home shop is to use a height gauge with a quality indicator. You need gauge blocks and a good fixture to hold your bullets during measurements.
I agree though with sleepygator. That is why I shoot the same lot in matches.

Starrett 1" micrometer that reads in tenths. I do shoot the same lot in matches. My good lot is almost gone. The new lot has a .2437" pressure ring. The pressure ring goes into the neck first and acts like an expander when seating, lol.

That makes more sense (explains the QC comment)..its not so much lot to lot variation but tolerance for a given measurement within a lot.

 

[Dave T]

Starrett 1" micrometer

Is this micrometer a digital?
Dave T

 

[ridgeway]

Starrett 1" micrometer

Is this micrometer a digital?
Dave T

Naaaa...good old standard mic.

 

[Dave T]

Naaaa...good old standard mic

I work with digital micrometers and part of my job is to calibrate them bi-monthly and digital mics aren't as precise as one may think they are, they are kinda like digital scales. That's why I asked.
Dave T

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The last lot I had measured .2347 at the shank/boattail junction. They shot very very well. I cant recall what the shank measured.

 

[ridgeway]

The last lot I had measured .2347 at the shank/boattail junction. They shot very very well. I cant recall what the shank measured.

What is your freebore diameter?

 

[timeout]

That is why most shooters buy a lot of the same lot # ask they will be more uniform. Same with powder and primers. Can't expect same stuff years later

Sell them on here to us ;D

+ 1. I find Bergers to be very uniform within the same lot. I can't say the same for some other non custom bullets. My hat's off to Berger.

 

[drumcorpschamp]

I have seen the same thing in my limited experience with the Hybrid 105's. My first 300 bullets measured similar to what you are stating Chuck. .2433 along the bearing surface and .2438/.2439 at the pressure ring. Received a box of 500 from a forum member and they measure .2433/.2434 with no bulge. First thing I did was open the box and measure diameters.

I shot the first batch in my 6BR as the pressure ring stayed in the neck. They shot great, but those 300 are almost gone. The new batch seats and holds great in the Dasher. I loaded some ladders for the BR and my Dasher with the new batch. Hope to shoot them this evening.

Have an additional 1000 coming from one vendor and 500 from another. I'll mic those as soon as the UPS guy delivers them and make decisions then.

I ran 108 Bergers, 107 Sierras and 115 DTACs in the Dasher until these Bergers came in. One thing is for sure, I'm gonna keep shooting. One way or another.

And as the poster above said, I have measured and weighed EXCELLENT in-lot consistency with ALL of the Bergers I have had. None better from any other manufacturer that I have tried.

Jerry

 

[johara1]

Chuck, I guess you goat learn to dance soon as your hip gets better.I have the same problem with the pressure ring..... jim

 

[brxbrad]

I'm curious just how much .0001 or even .0003 effects the score of the one who's shooting. What about the differences in the powder amounts dispensed by your measure or lot # of that powder. Do you anneal your brass everytime to make sure the consistency is always equal and then how would you know the brass is really the same. And then there's the primers, and the winds, and the sun, and the heat, and the rain, and the light, and the time of day, and place on the planet you're competing, and the barrel wear, and the etc. etc.......

I think I'm losing my mind.........What do I do???????