What is Realistic MOA to expect between these rifles

[BlakeShadow]

New member - 1st post

Im looking to start shooting paper for fun and casual competition. $1000 budget for rifle and scope. Will add bipod and cheek pad but nothing else planned. Leaning toward an SWFA 10x quadmill reticle or Primary Arms 4-14 with milldot. This post is to help me select a rifle by understanding performance expectation differences between affordable Savage AccuTrigger models. Im looking at Savage 11 with medium heavy "Pedator" barrel vs Savage 10FP with full heavy barrel and AccuStock. I hear both should be sub MOA out of the box but what is reality. So for both factory and handloading, what is the real world group size/accuracy expectation differences in those 2 rifles. I am pretty set on .223 caliber for low recoil, lower sound, lower cost

 

[22BRGUY]

I would ask myself what I intend to use it for in percentages. If strictly paper punching or mostly paper punching vs. hunting or field use, If mostly target, the target heavy barrel model would be my choice. Hard to sometimes predict this kind of thing I know.
The difference on target would be something but so much depends on so many other factors, it would be hard for me at least, to give you a direct answer to your question but best wishes whichever you decide.

 

[dkhunt14]

Either would be good. The lighter barrel would probably shoot as good but would heat quicker on strings. You would have to let it cool after a few shots. It just would
be luck of the draw to which would shoot better. Matt

 

[BlakeShadow]

i think i understand they are close enough to not worry about accuracy diff. I expect 90% target use. Probably 50% bench and 50% on the farm. No plans to hunt with it but would use it for yotes and varmints 100 to 300 yds. So heavy barrel should be fine. I have other hunting rifles for deer.

 

[watercam]

Once you have made your choice I am sure you know how much ammunition choices affect accuracy. Hopefully you are reloading! If not, consider it in the future.

 

[savagedasher]

Welcome
Your going to find many in here have guns that shoot 1/4 min all day long. But your going to find others will help you also. I think the guns that you have picked . Can shoot 1 moa with the right load and but you must do your job. Larry

 

[Mozella]

If you have a hunting rifle already, I'd go with the Savage 10FP. With a bit of testing, some good hand loading discipline, and a moderate quality rest, I'd be surprised if you couldn't get it to shoot sub 1/2 MOA five shot groups much of the time at 100 yards.

 

[K22]

Savage rifles have a good reputation for accuracy. I personally don't own any but several of my buddies do and are pleased with them. Don't think you can go wrong with them.

There is some fairly good factory ammo being sold today loaded with premium bullet. I've see some sub moa groups shot with Federal Premium in factory rifles. I have not shot factory ammo in 40 years so I have no personal experience with factory ammo only what I've observed on the range.

To get the maximum potential out of a rifle you might want to consider reloading if you intend to do a lot of shooting and want to give yourself the best chance for tight groups. With factory ammo you cannot tune it to your specific rifle. You may hit on a factory offering that works but it's a roll of the dices. Then there's a problem of availability and consistency with factory ammo. With tailored reloads, an accurate rifle and quality scope you should be in able to achieve 1/2 moa or there about.

Another rifle brand you may want to look at is the Tikka's. I have a 243 and it shoots fantastic in the 1/2 moa range with custom reloads.

The 223 is a good choice for your stated purposes. I have seven 223's bolt rifles and they all shoot extremely well, but with tailored reloads. The 223 is an excellent varmint and predator choice if you keep shots under 300 yards. Barrel life is also very good. I shoot 50 to 55 grain Nosler BT bullets in mine (12" twist) and they perform very well.

 

[fredhorace77]

I started off with a used savage model 12 BVSS in 22-250. With a used Bushnell 4200 6-24x scope. I shot that gun for about 2 years and then sold it. I sure miss that gun. It was a great gun to start out with. I think gun and scope I had right at $900 invested if I remember correctly. The thing I regret the most is letting the trigger go with the gun. It had a Canjar set trigger with it. I shot several .5" groups with it. And once even shot a .118" 5-Shot group. Although I could never duplicate that again. I guess sometimes the wind can take credit for blowing the shots together just as well as it has credit for blowing them apart.

 

[M14AMU]

New member - 1st post

Im looking to start shooting paper for fun and casual competition. $1000 budget for rifle and scope. Will add bipod and cheek pad but nothing else planned. Leaning toward an SWFA 10x quadmill reticle or Primary Arms 4-14 with milldot. This post is to help me select a rifle by understanding performance expectation differences between affordable Savage AccuTrigger models. Im looking at Savage 11 with medium heavy "Pedator" barrel vs Savage 10FP with full heavy barrel and AccuStock. I hear both should be sub MOA out of the box but what is reality. So for both factory and handloading, what is the real world group size/accuracy expectation differences in those 2 rifles. I am pretty set on .223 caliber for low recoil, lower sound, lower cost

I have a rather 'extensive' background involving Remington rifles/actions and recently I bought my young grandson the below shown rifle! Whether you hate or love Remington I have found their actions/barrels to be very accurate over the years through a process of shooting NRA HP competition...whether it be NMC, Palma or in a hunting mode! I won more than my share of junk shooting a left-handed Remington action. Yes...I've read and heard the saying 'when I do my part' and have often gotten a grin from that syntax but the below shown rifle, even when I DON'T DO MY PART will shoot 1/2 MOA groups and when I DO WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO DO it will shoot 1/4 MOA five shot groups from 200 yards! And this is right out of the box with ammo that I have not loaded specifically to fit it's chamber!

Five shots, 200 yards 1.320" horizontal x .525" vertical

Untitled by Rick Mulhern, on Flickr

Untitled by Rick Mulhern, on Flickr

 

[CharlieNC]

Savage Hog Hunter is $450. Bull barrel, 20in, 9 twist, longgg freebore. Very accurate rifle, but the Tupperware stock is the weak link. For the price you will have plenty left for a decent $100 Boyds laminate, or spend more if you prefer. A number of guys I shoot with at long range steel win the matches with Swafa 12x, and I added one recently too on my Hog. Decent optics, excellent tracking, and bullet proof. This is my favorite rifle to shoot, much due to its compactness combined with accuracy.

 

[RockyMtnMan]

Cheap factory rifle using factory ammo? There are no guarantees. Might have a decent chance at getting an accurate rifle/ammo combo. Just have to roll the dice.

Now if you planned to handload ammo, it's often very easy to get most of today's factory rifles shooting with accuracy well under 1 MOA.

 

[Mozella]

...... snip........... even when I DON'T DO MY PART will shoot 1/2 MOA groups and when I DO WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO DO it will shoot 1/4 MOA five shot groups from 200 yards! And this is right out of the box with ammo that I have not loaded specifically to fit it's chamber!

Congratulations. That's fine shooting, especially using factory ammo.

But before the OP gets his hopes up, I would caution him that he may have difficulty matching your success. I encourage the OP to do a quick check of the group sizes produced at a typical high-end benchrest match at 200 yards. I would say even coming anywhere near competition benchrest scores would be a fine goal, but I think it would be very very difficult to do so.

The OP should realize that the guys who participate in serious BR competition use the absolute very best custom made rifles costing many, many, thousands of dollars and are completely maniacal when it comes to hand loading; often loading rounds during the match itself tailored to the temperature and humidity of the moment, and perhaps the phase of the moon as far as anyone knows. If I were to show up at a top level BR match with a factory rifle and factory ammo, they would politely ask me to leave without even asking about my ability.

Plus, these guys are REALLY good and essentially always "do their part", or at least the guys in the top 10 do. So the published scores might be considered a reasonable indication of how well a great shooter with the finest equipment and really fantastic ammo can do shooting 5 shot groups at 200 yards.

Producing 1/4 MOA 5 shot groups at 200 yards on a regular basis won't win every match because it's not unusual for the winner to do a tiny bit better than that.......... sometimes. However, a gun which will regularly shoot 1/4 MOA groups at 200 yards will win plenty of matches and all but guarantee a spot on the podium because few people achieve this level of precision. You should be very proud to own such a gun, I wish I did.

 

[Patch700]

Having a budget is important , having said that I would spend as much as i possibly could on the glass..

Poor factory rifles can be rebarreled , restocked , bedded , actions trued up , better triggers installed etc... When you buy a scope you get what you get.

Don't pass up the chance to get a sightron 8-32 or even a 10-50 if the price is rite.

Good luck.

 

[M14AMU]

Congratulations. That's fine shooting, especially using factory ammo.

But before the OP gets his hopes up, I would caution him that he may have difficulty matching your success. I encourage the OP to do a quick check of the group sizes produced at a typical high-end benchrest match at 200 yards. I would say even coming anywhere near competition benchrest scores would be a fine goal, but I think it would be very very difficult to do so.

The OP should realize that the guys who participate in serious BR competition use the absolute very best custom made rifles costing many, many, thousands of dollars and are completely maniacal when it comes to hand loading; often loading rounds during the match itself tailored to the temperature and humidity of the moment, and perhaps the phase of the moon as far as anyone knows. If I were to show up at a top level BR match with a factory rifle and factory ammo, they would politely ask me to leave without even asking about my ability.

Plus, these guys are REALLY good and essentially always "do their part", or at least the guys in the top 10 do. So the published scores might be considered a reasonable indication of how well a great shooter with the finest equipment and really fantastic ammo can do shooting 5 shot groups at 200 yards.

Producing 1/4 MOA 5 shot groups at 200 yards on a regular basis won't win every match because it's not unusual for the winner to do a tiny bit better than that.......... sometimes. However, a gun which will regularly shoot 1/4 MOA groups at 200 yards will win plenty of matches and all but guarantee a spot on the podium because few people achieve this level of precision. You should be very proud to own such a gun, I wish I did.

Mozella

"Congratulations. That's fine shooting, especially using factory ammo."

That wasn't factory ammo....just some stuff I had loaded for an AR-10! I haven't shot a factory round of ammo since around 1948 when Dad started me handloading! And yes....1/4 MOA ain't gonna win much or too often at some events but it does show that an 'out of the box' rifle that shows promise is not a bad thing to start with....on a limited budget!!