What is Good for A Competitive 6ppc

[Ccrider]

How accurate does a gun have to be to meet your requirements for being used at a serious match. If you get consistent groups of .2 or better when you do your part is that enough. Or, under ideal conditions, does the gun have to shoot .1 or better? I know the type of match may dictate the minimum requirement.

My thought is that not every barrel will consistently shoot .15 or better, even in ideal conditions. But what should you expect a “good” competitive match barrel to shoot.

Thanks

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If your barrel wont shoot .15 or better you need another barrel. You cant win a match with the top 10 aggs in the teens when your barrel or setup wont even shoot a single teen group. Competition is tuff these days. You gotta be on your game and everything matters down to your trigger and the sand in your bags- even the hands that glued your action in.

 

[lukehalee]

To finish top 5 at big matches you need a set up that will shoot 3 shot groups across a 1 grain window of low low 1’s, preferably with one point that will repeat in the zeros. This must repeatable in a decent breeze. If you don’t have this window and ability to handle wind, you will be chasing tune all weekend or beat up by the wind all weekend. As Dusty implies, it’s your whole program and process. This can either motivate you or depress you. I love it. Do not believe those that say you have to buy 20 barrels per year to find this. If you can’t meet this criteria with 2/3’s of the barrels you buy, you need to upgrade/improve your rifle, bullets, tuning process, bench ware.

SR BR is brutal. Embrace it.

 

[INShooter]

Ccrider
You have received two excellent responses to your post. You should certainly read the IBS National report currently in the Daily Bulletin.
Look at the winning aggs. To shoot those kind of teen aggs, all of your equipment and you have to be up to it.
I shot in that match and trust me, conditions were far from ideal.
lukehalee is right on.

 

[dgeesaman]

To finish top 5 at big matches you need a set up that will shoot 3 shot groups across a 1 grain window of low low 1’s, preferably with one point that will repeat in the zeros. This must repeatable in a decent breeze. If you don’t have this window and ability to handle wind, you will be chasing tune all weekend or beat up by the wind all weekend. As Dusty implies, it’s your whole program and process. This can either motivate you or depress you. I love it. Do not believe those that say you have to buy 20 barrels per year to find this. If you can’t meet this criteria with 2/3’s of the barrels you buy, you need to upgrade/improve your rifle, bullets, tuning process, bench ware.

SR BR is brutal. Embrace it.

Related question: lets say you plan on attending 10 matches in a year, 5 'big' and 5 local. Can one very good and one good barrel get you there?

David

 

[wvlongshot]

Following.

 

[garandman]

Sounds like an equipment race... the one with the biggest wallet wins....

No judgment on those who play that game. Its cool. Its just not forme.

 

[R.Morehouse]

Can't see it as an equip. race. Good barrel & bullets that will work for you is always a plus. Knowing when to shoot in the given condition and really being able to read the conditions I believe is what separates the top finishers from the rest of the pack. Knowing how to keep your gun in tune weather it is from adjusting your powder charge or tuner is a VERY key element in any type of success you are shooting for. Many top shooters use a $350. fixed power scope & a familiar older platform that may or may not have an ejector, all looking for that barrel/bullet combo that work...... No magic pixy dust here.....Confidence in your equipment is huge.

Regards
Rick

 

[garandman]

I am weird. While I own an adjustable front rest I shoot bench rest off a bi pod and rear bag. I want to push me as hard as I can. I compete against me. Improving equals winning a match.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Can't see it as an equip. race. Good barrel & bullets that will work for you is always a plus. Knowing when to shoot in the given condition and really being able to read the conditions I believe is what separates the top finishers from the rest of the pack. Knowing how to keep your gun in tune weather it is from adjusting your powder charge or tuner is a VERY key element in any type of success you are shooting for. Many top shooters use a $350. fixed power scope & a familiar older platform that may or may not have an ejector, all looking for that barrel/bullet combo that work...... No magic pixy dust here.....Confidence in your equipment is huge.

Regards
Rick

I would like to know who the many top shooters are who are using a fixed power 350.00 scope. Not in any equipment list I have seen. I agree with you that the ability to read conditions is very important. However, given a group of shooters who have developed these skills, those with the financial resources to buy, chamber, and test with custom bullets multiple barrels a year as opposed to those who get 1 or 2 barrels a year have a decided advantage. It is an advantage to have additional rescources to go along with the effeort to learn conditions, I feel. I come out of the 1 or 2 barrel a year group, would love to have the ability to start with 10 each year. Better chance to find one that ignores the conditions.

 

[jimmymac]

I think it is both an equipment race as well as learning when and when not to shoot. Sure helps if you have a number of barrels to select from where you can shelf one or two for big matches only.

 

[R.Morehouse]

I would like to know who the many top shooters are who are using a fixed power 350.00 scope. Not in any equipment list I have seen. I agree with you that the ability to read conditions is very important. However, given a group of shooters who have developed these skills, those with the financial resources to buy, chamber, and test with custom bullets multiple barrels a year as opposed to those who get 1 or 2 barrels a year have a decided advantage. It is an advantage to have additional rescources to go along with the effeort to learn conditions, I feel. I come out of the 1 or 2 barrel a year group, would love to have the ability to start with 10 each year. Better chance to find one that ignores the conditions.

Your right Jeff, I may have miss spoke. I didn't take the equipment list into account. I see a lot of what I would consider top shooters that you won't necessarily find shooting at the places that keep lists. I agree those places take a lot of time and resources to get to and compete at. With those resources come the ability to buy the "best" you can get in equipment that makes your experience more enjoyable ( hence the equip. list ). I have a March fixed 50 on one of my guns and a fixed 36 Weaver on the other. Both are great guns & I have just as much faith in the Weaver as the March to hold point of aim.......From what I see, you don't need to shop off the top shelf to be successful. I would suggest to anyone getting started with the 6ppc, buy a reamer for your barrels. Have a custom seating die cut from it and get a good sizer suggested by Harrels after sending them some brass. Get a good set of 6 wind flags and chase barrels & bullets at whatever level your wallet can stand. Set the flags up then shoot your arse off in changing conditions. I am finding out that practice in crap conditions after load development is a good way to learn. On a personal note, I have more to learn than I can imagine and with my limited resources it's going to take a good while......But I am sure likein' the adventure of it all.......Happy Shooting....

Regards
Rick

 

[BartsBullets]

Sounds like an equipment race... the one with the biggest wallet wins....

No judgment on those who play that game. Its cool. Its just not forme.

Brother,

You Absolutely Can’t Buy it! You need good equipment, but it comes down to an incredible amount of dedication and work, if you want to be a top shooter.

Bart

 

[Ccrider]

So a “good” barrel will agg .15 or better. 2 out of 3 barrels from the better manufacturers should agg .15 or better. And, there is no substitute for learning how to drive.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Rick you brought up a good point in having your own reamer and having the same person doing your barrels. Will make life easier. No, you can't buy it but having the ability to test multiple barrels yearly greatly increases the chance of finding a h h h.....can't say that word. I consider a .15 barrel average at best and yes they are the vast majority of barrels, I would say 85 to 90 percent. 9 percent not good. 1 percent, the h word....maybe.

 

[WyleWD]

So a “good” barrel will agg .15 or better. 2 out of 3 barrels from the better manufacturers should agg .15 or better. And, there is no substitute for learning how to drive.

Add correct bench set up for your rifle and proper and consistent bench discipline to that and I'll agree with ya 100%. I know a fellow that has failed to win 4 matches since March all caused by one bad shot in each match. Learning how to drive is a good thing. JME. WD

 

[Evan]

So a “good” barrel will agg .15 or better. 2 out of 3 barrels from the better manufacturers should agg .15 or better. And, there is no substitute for learning how to drive.

I'm skeptical of this 2 out of 3 number. I may be ignorant of the truth, but I don't think there are that many sub-par barrels out there from the big name makers. Seems like every barrel I've got has been capable of better than 2s. Also seems like the top shooters, gunsmiths, and barrel makers all maintain that a majority of "bad barrels" actually end up being a problem somewhere else in the system. A tuning, reloading, or shooter issue.

 

[Ccrider]

@Evan, I said .15 or better, not under .2. Do you think that a higher percentage will agg. .15 or better for five shots? @WyleWD says .15 is average at best, and 85 to 90% will shoot that, so it is obvious that he agrees with you.

For three shot groups I can see .15 or better being average. For five shots I am not so sure.

 

[jimmymac]

To agg .150 both the barrel and the shooter better be up to the task. I'll contend that most guys can't shoot a .150 agg with the best barrel on the planet because their shooting skills are not up to the task. It only takes a mistake or two to screw the pooch. There are a small percentage of guys who can walk the walk, then there are the rest of us.

 

[Ccrider]

@jimmymac, that is probably true. But, my question is how accurate the gun has to be to be competitive.

I understand that driving the gun is a whole nuther story.