What is a 1/2 moa rifle?

[mram10]

I am confused, or the worst shot in the world. I have 2 custom rifles and some nice factory ones. My edge is a 30" brux on 700LA, hs stock and jewell trigger. I have never consistently shot 1/2 moa or even 1 moa. I always have a little flyer that puts it over. Shot at 300, 600 and 800 yesterday. I had a group that was 5 shots in 5" at 800, but then had a flyer about 10 low. There goes that great group ???

When guys say their rifles are 1/2 moa, do they mean it is capable, or are they saying their average group is 1/2 moa?

I have a hard time believing that at 500+, they are consistently shooting 1/2 moa.

 

[Mudcat]

There are plenty of rifles that will probably shoot that good, but the reality is that folks that own them usually cant. But, folks also tend to "forget" about bad shots, call them "flyers", etc. Hate to say it, but most of those "flyers" are shooter errors. Most folks cant call shots either...if you cant call them, how do you know you didnt put it there?

My thougths...quit worrying about whether your rifle has "1/2 MOA bad butt mojo rifle" on its pedigree and shoot more, get better and you might find that your rifle does shoot 1/2 MOA....when you do your part.

Of course, not refering to YOU, the OP, just you, in general, to all of us.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Most of the guys that say their rifles shoot 1/2 MOA "all day long" have never shot all day long. They are usually talking about 3 shot groups at 100 yards.
I have shot some 20 shot strings at about 1/2 MOA at 1,000 yards, but those are very rare.

However, if you had such a good group going and then a shot dropped that far low, you need to work on your reloading skills. I have shot many 3-4" 5 shot groups at 1,000 yards, it's when you have to shoot 20 that things get harder.

 

[CatShooter]

I am confused, or the worst shot in the world. I have 2 custom rifles and some nice factory ones. My edge is a 30" brux on 700LA, hs stock and jewell trigger. I have never consistently shot 1/2 moa or even 1 moa. I always have a little flyer that puts it over. Shot at 300, 600 and 800 yesterday. I had a group that was 5 shots in 5" at 800, but then had a flyer about 10 low. There goes that great group ???

When guys say their rifles are 1/2 moa, do they mean it is capable, or are they saying their average group is 1/2 moa?

I have a hard time believing that at 500+, they are consistently shooting 1/2 moa.

You will probably get 10 different opinions on this, but...

You asked "What is a 1/2 minute rifle."

So I will address the rifle, not the shooter.

A 1/2 minute rifle is one that can be counted to deliver 1/2 minute groups, most (or all) of the time, over and over - not once a year or once in a while.

That does not mean that everyone can shoot 1/2 minute groups with it, over and over.

Decent rifles are much better than 95+% of the shooters that own them - either by lack of shooting skills, or lack of loading skills... or both.

I would add... there are no fliers, only larger groups than you want. If you have 4 in 5" and one at 10". you have a 10" group, not a 5" group with a flier.

When that happens often, you need to analyze the reason, and make the necessary changes... either in the gun, ammunition, or (usually) the operator.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I agree with Eric. If you put 4 in 5'' and one went 10'' low you would know if you did it. You may just be out of tune. How are you dispensing powder? Do you shoot over wind flags? If not your just guessing. I kind of think a lot of those "fliers" are the guns fault. Its easy to blame ourselves, but I think most the time the gun is out of tune. By edge you mean .338 edge? That will be much harder to get .5 moa than others.

 

[ShootDots]

If you are addressing JUST THE RIFLE, it would be one capable of shooting at or less than 1/2 m.o.a. on a consistent basis.. Now the RIFLE may very well be capable of that level of accuracy. Having said that, assuming YOU load correctly, the "components" could cause periodic "flyers".. I know an EXCELLENT F-Open shooter who weigh sorts ALL his brass, weight sorts ALL his bullets and "sorts them base to ogive"... His loading techniques are near flawless. He has "found" bullets up to 9grains LESS than the 180grs they are supposed to be. Then there are the bullets that have the "axis" slightly off (that you can not see or "sort" for) and brass that "fits the sorting process" but may be internally flawed.. These "types" of component flaws most certainly will cause a flyer. These are possibilities you can NOT control. It has nothing to do with the gun... The rifle is still capable of 1/2m.o.a. BUT the components were not. Now admittedly, flawed bullets, brass or primers come along >>> they also come along a lot less than we would like to believe. It is normally "shooter error" that blows a group past 1/2m.o.a.

So, suffice to say, a well built rifle by a competent 'smith, with a good barrel, action, etc.. IS or should be capable of 1/2 m.o.a.>>>but that is only one variable>>>components, shooter and weather are all CONTRIBUTING FACTORS in whether or not YOU shoot 1/2 m.o.a. on a regular basis..

As Catshooter stated (of whom I respect his opinion greatly) >You will get varying opinions on this subject. So take the summation of every opinion and weigh it out>>you will come very close to the answer you are seeking!

 

[Immike]

One of my old and passed friends would fail his last shot every time in matches we shot (3 shots score). He would change his pace on the last shot and spend twice the time aiming and it would not follow the others. I took his spotting scope away during a match and called his shots off center (I lied ) and he won the relay with a perfect target. This may not be your problem but lookout for this. This is a great question for this forum by the way.

 

[dkhunt14]

338 bullets are a lot more inconsistent then other calibers. I have a 45 lb. 338 Lapua IMP that we long range hunt with and I shoot it a lot at 1000. I have shot a lot of 5 and 10 shot groups and a lot of times the 5 shot groups will be 4 to 5 inches and the 10 shot groups will be 7 to 8 inches. Conditions causes some of this and sometimes it is components. I load just like I do for 1000 yard benchrest. Sort bullets by bearing, weigh them and run threw a bushing to check diameters. The bigger magnums just won't shoot as small as the 300 WSM's or Dashers. When you go to the 338 it gets even harder to shoot small groups. I have 1 Dasher and 2 300 WSM's that will consistently shoot 4 and five inch 10 shot groups in competition at 1000 yards. But conditions sometimes won't allow this. When you put 9 shots in the 2 to 3 inch range and one goes out and opens you up to 7 to 8 inches it is usually a condition that causes this. Your loading or a bad component can also cause this. Inconsistent neck tension, bad bullet or a lot of other things can also cause it.

 

[rvn1968]

MRAM10,I think you would do well listening to Mr Cortina.I think he is still on team Lapua.FWIW.

 

[mram10]

First, thanks for the inputs. As for powder charging, I use a standard rcbs powder thrower. I use to weigh each one on my scale, but was told by a wise older gentleman to forget that, cause it just takes more time and the errors in the powder thrower are much less of a factor than the shooter. I am sure I can reload better, though I try to take my time and do it right.

It is a 338 edge. I shoot off a bipod at first light before the winds get going. It weighs 15lbs with scope.

 

[L.Sherm]

Not weighing each charge could very well be your flier just my 2 cents.

 

[rvn1968]

Hi,With all due respect to that elder gent,accurate weight of your charge is the first step to accuracy. After that you will be going crazy on conctricty,COAL,jump to lands or loading to the lands,it is a long and rewarding road. Tom.

 

[Ggmac]

OK OK YOU ALL HAVE IT WRONG ! its a rifle for GI JOE . Its less than 1/2 " high and less than 1/2 wide , length does not matter.
Of course Im kidding , Im old not dead

 

[Ohio1]

CatShooter, is half min of angle .5 of an inch or 1.83MOA (minute of angle being 3.66 at 100yds?)!

Steve

 

[dannyjbiggs]

I am confused, or the worst shot in the world. I have 2 custom rifles and some nice factory ones. My edge is a 30" brux on 700LA, hs stock and jewell trigger. I have never consistently shot 1/2 moa or even 1 moa. I always have a little flyer that puts it over. Shot at 300, 600 and 800 yesterday. I had a group that was 5 shots in 5" at 800, but then had a flyer about 10 low. There goes that great group ???

When guys say their rifles are 1/2 moa, do they mean it is capable, or are they saying their average group is 1/2 moa?

I have a hard time believing that at 500+, they are consistently shooting 1/2 moa.

Often times, I will claim to have a "1/4 minute gun". For me to make that claim, I am referring to the rifle's proven CAPABILITY to render 1/4 minute accuracy...not that I will always shoot that well "at distance" and "at full string" with it. But, my claim is based on that particular rifle (with me squeezing the trigger) actually shooting a measured 1/4 minute 10-shot group from the bench at 200 yards...along with an acceptable Extreme Spread. Frankly, it would worry me to take a 1/2 minute gun to a serious F-Class competition!!

Danny Biggs

 

[JDMock]

At the local Barber Shop, a 1/2 MOA rifle is one that does not shoot too well. All of the deer hunter's rifles shoot 1/2 INCH at 200 yards "all day long". A 1/2 MOA rifle is a true disappointment for this crowd when talking about their Remchester 7mm Magnum or 30-06 firing carefully selected factory loads. ;D James

 

[mram10]

At the local Barber Shop, a 1/2 MOA rifle is one that does not shoot too well. All of the deer hunter's rifles shoot 1/2 INCH at 200 yards "all day long". A 1/2 MOA rifle is a true disappointment for this crowd when talking about their Remchester 7mm Magnum or 30-06 firing carefully selected factory loads. ;D James

This is funny

It is also the reason I question everyone that says they have a 1/2moa or better gun. I guess they are treating it like a race car. They once had a quarter mile pass that was 10.99sec, so it is a "10 second car" in their view. I cannot imagine a hunting rifle that shoots 4 inch groups at 800 yards CONSISTENTLY. Guess I will start weighing my powder charges and weight sorting my brass.

 

[WyleWD]

I am confused, or the worst shot in the world. I have 2 custom rifles and some nice factory ones. My edge is a 30" brux on 700LA, hs stock and jewell trigger. I have never consistently shot 1/2 moa or even 1 moa. I always have a little flyer that puts it over. Shot at 300, 600 and 800 yesterday. I had a group that was 5 shots in 5" at 800, but then had a flyer about 10 low. There goes that great group ???

When guys say their rifles are 1/2 moa, do they mean it is capable, or are they saying their average group is 1/2 moa?

I have a hard time believing that at 500+, they are consistently shooting 1/2 moa.

You will probably get 10 different opinions on this, but...

You asked "What is a 1/2 minute rifle."

So I will address the rifle, not the shooter.

A 1/2 minute rifle is one that can be counted to deliver 1/2 minute groups, most (or all) of the time, over and over - not once a year or once in a while.

That does not mean that everyone can shoot 1/2 minute groups with it, over and over.

Decent rifles are much better than 95+% of the shooters that own them - either by lack of shooting skills, or lack of loading skills... or both.

I would add... there are no fliers, only larger groups than you want. If you have 4 in 5" and one at 10". you have a 10" group, not a 5" group with a flier.

When that happens often, you need to analyze the reason, and make the necessary changes... either in the gun, ammunition, or (usually) the operator.

+1. Great response. WD

 

[CatShooter]

CatShooter, is half min of angle .5 of an inch or 1.83MOA (minute of angle being 3.66 at 100yds?)!

Steve

A "MIL" (for Milliradian) is 4" at 100 meters, or ~3.66" at 100 yards.


A "MOA" (for Minute Of Angle), is 1.047" at 100 yards - it is the convention to use moa to mean 1" at 100 yards, even though it is a little bit inaccurate.

 

[rvn1968]

Back in the 60's I shot for my regimental team,so-so,2nd string.I have been shooting since the late 50s and only ONCE in my life got a 1/4 min group.I am almost 65 and still trying,but I can't get enough practice time.That is the key in reloading and trigger time.Get a good scale with a check weight, Tom