hogpatrol
Silver $$ Contributor
He needs a jail sentence, at least for terminal stupidity.
What happens to you when you don't have a FFL
- Thread starter MDSpencer
- Start date
He needs a jail sentence, at least for terminal stupidity.
Slightly askew of the topic, but the same goes for "gun smiths" that are not licensed. Some very talented folks are doing a land office business performing advanced gun work without licensing. If they jumped through all the hoops, and paid for license(s), insurance, etc., they would not be able to exist at their non-profit type pricing that legit smiths compete against.
Rant over.
Rant over.
I feel if the law has rules of requirement and not everyone compliant The one wrong should be punished . If it involves fire arms the penalty should be that You can’t have any dealing with them . Tell me that would Change every thing . Larry
shortgrass
Silver $$ Contributor
Larry, violations of federal Firearms law are just that, federal violations. Get convicted of "violation(s)" and you are now a convicted felon as all convictions carry at least the possibility of a year in the federal pen, besides a good sized fine. IF you are convicted of a crime, any crime, that carries the possibility of jail time of a year (or more), whether you are sentenced to a year, or not,,, you will not pass a background check (if the records are up to date). Hence, you can go to a gunshow with cash, find a table that is a "collector", pay your money and walk away with your gun. There are further laws concerning possession of a firearm by a convicted felon to contend with if you are caught. As for the unlicensed gunsmiths, they are the licensed gunsmiths greatest competitor,,,,, and there are LOTS of them! I have NO PROBLEM with an honest citizen selling his personal property. The citizen can have any number of reasons for wishing to sell all or some of his personally owned firearms. He may be laid-off and need money for the mortgage or insurance, he might be of aged to the point he is no longer able to shoot/hunt and his heirs have no interest in firearms, or he could use the money for medical bills, or maybe he and Grandma would like to take the grandkids to see the Grand canyon. The unlicensed 'hurt' the licensed, and when it goes too far and they are caught it hurts ALL gun owners. The rest of the citizenry that know nothing about firearms sees all gun owners as 'hicks' and deplorables which makes it easier to enact MORE gun control legislation.
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Not sure how the guy was making money on the mess he was doing as I understand it. It looks like he was purchasing parts and assembling them to sell in quantity. Parts aren't cheap and it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I guess he had a thing going somehow but he should have known that he was in for trouble if the wrong people found out about it.
If the agent told him he was buying to resell to a friend that is a straw man purchase and highly illegal. The whole thing stinks. The poor guy must have been mentally challenged and of course that's not an excuse.
The laws are such that it's just about impossible to not break some law in just about anything we do. That's where you have prosecutorial discretion and the prosecutor can choose his victim at will. Unless you happen to be a Clinton or and Obama you are at all times in jeopardy of offending some obscure law. Where firearms are concerned they are hyper sensitive and the statutes overlap enough that peril is ever present. You don't have to go looking for it like this guy did.
ATF comes into a pawn shop and does their check. The agent goes to the owner and says this 4473 is in violation. Owner, Why? Because it's in error, the state cannot be abbreviated. Owner, well the post office allows it and the mail still gets here. Agent, Ok I'll shut the doors to this place and place you under arrest until you figure it out. Owner, Oh no That's OK, sorry I didn't understand. Agent just make sure I don't see this problem again. Owner, Sure,, you bet I'll make sure of that. Right or wrong...Well let's just say they are never wrong.
The "solvent trap" thing was another thing that lots of people got busted for. They didn't actually make a suppressor they just made parts that were easy to turn into a suppressor. They had to know it had the potential to turn nasty. And it did.
Don't mess with the tax man and don't mess with the ATF. In the case of firearms they are one and the same.
If the agent told him he was buying to resell to a friend that is a straw man purchase and highly illegal. The whole thing stinks. The poor guy must have been mentally challenged and of course that's not an excuse.
The laws are such that it's just about impossible to not break some law in just about anything we do. That's where you have prosecutorial discretion and the prosecutor can choose his victim at will. Unless you happen to be a Clinton or and Obama you are at all times in jeopardy of offending some obscure law. Where firearms are concerned they are hyper sensitive and the statutes overlap enough that peril is ever present. You don't have to go looking for it like this guy did.
ATF comes into a pawn shop and does their check. The agent goes to the owner and says this 4473 is in violation. Owner, Why? Because it's in error, the state cannot be abbreviated. Owner, well the post office allows it and the mail still gets here. Agent, Ok I'll shut the doors to this place and place you under arrest until you figure it out. Owner, Oh no That's OK, sorry I didn't understand. Agent just make sure I don't see this problem again. Owner, Sure,, you bet I'll make sure of that. Right or wrong...Well let's just say they are never wrong.
The "solvent trap" thing was another thing that lots of people got busted for. They didn't actually make a suppressor they just made parts that were easy to turn into a suppressor. They had to know it had the potential to turn nasty. And it did.
Don't mess with the tax man and don't mess with the ATF. In the case of firearms they are one and the same.
shortgrass
Silver $$ Contributor
You know, the only problem with that is IT IS ALRIGHT TO USE THE POST OFFICE RECOGNIZED ABREVIATION FOR THE STATE! The biggest problem with the 4473 is many do not FULLY complete the form! Some neglect to post the required signs. And, the bound book is not kept up to date and complete. None of these things are hard or difficult to do. All ya' gotta' do is READ AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS THAT ARE PART OF THE 4473, and then do what the instruction direct you to do! The guy facing sentencing was assembling firearms and selling them without the proper license. My shop has been inspected several time over the years and I have yet to met an inspector that 'nit-picked'. I have had comments that they liked the way I kept my paper work in order with any extra in formation attached. None of this is hard to do, unless you just plain neglect to read the instructions and follow the rules set forth that are easy to find..........
Well I'm happy for you that you have not yet met the guy from the ATF with a God complex because that really did happen and whatever he tells you had better be followed or else you will be in deep trouble with an agency that has the complete authority to destroy your business. All I can say is that on that day, that agent required for Texas to be used instead of the abbreviation and all the shit written in the instructions were meaningless.
I agree, we have a guy around my area that does this type of stuff. He will thread muzzles, build rifles, and a multitude of other gunsmithing work all while not being licensed at all. The worst part is he claims to be a gunsmith to the locals and they believe him. Recently a gentleman I know took a new savage rifle to him for problems when opening and closing the bolt. It appeared to be a problem with incorrect headspace from the factory resulting in the bolt face rubbing the back of the barrel. Instead of remedying the problem correctly he simply removed the bolt and milled the bolt face down until it would allow the bolt to close without touching. I am sure this type of stuff goes on in many places across the country but it sure gives the real gunsmith a bad name.
Personally I don’t think you should be able to do either .
Try going to go to a dealer and try buying a gun for someone else .
Someone doing business without a license to me is the same as someone being our country without proper papers . Larry
shortgrass
Silver $$ Contributor
The land of the free won't exist for long with so many not only willingly acquiescing to restrictions but actually advocating for them. "Are your papers in order, comrade?" WH
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