What happened to my barrel?

[FrankG]

what are the diagonal lines that i am seeing??

The gouges are from the bristles of the brush. The abrasives makes the brush even more aggressive. There is no way all the bristles are going to fall into all the grooves and follow the twist of the barrel. So the bristles will go up and over the edges and tops of the lands. It's worse if your using a cleaning rod with a handle that doesn't rotate freely or your pushing the cleaning rod so fast that the rod cannot do it's job either.

I've been to matches and seen shooters cleaning the bore of the barrel like it's a clogged kitchen sink!

 

[okie]

The gouges are from the bristles of the brush. The abrasives makes the brush even more aggressive. There is no way all the bristles are going to fall into all the grooves and follow the twist of the barrel. So the bristles will go up and over the edges and tops of the lands. It's worse if your using a cleaning rod with a handle that doesn't rotate freely or your pushing the cleaning rod so fast that the rod cannot do it's job either.

I've been to matches and seen shooters cleaning the bore of the barrel like it's a clogged kitchen sink!

ok thanks!--thought it looked like the brush was just riding over like you said--wow! lots of damage

 

[FrankG]

I'll throw this in there as well. So food for thought for you guys.

It got broke off in my butt on BRC some years back. That the brush cannot hurt the bore of the barrel. Guy even went on to say that the brush is only 80 on the BHN scale and the barrel steel is 300. He measured them. I say 285 but close enough.

My come back is....Why can water erode rocks?

 

[jelenko]

I'll throw this in there as well. So food for thought for you guys.

It got broke off in my butt on BRC some years back. That the brush cannot hurt the bore of the barrel. Guy even went on to say that the brush is only 80 on the BHN scale and the barrel steel is 300. He measured them. I say 285 but close enough.

My come back is....Why can water erode rocks?

Is it the brushes or the abrasive compound that is doing the scratching?

 

[FrankG]

Is it the brushes or the abrasive compound that is doing the scratching?

It's a combination of both. The brush amplifies the abrasive compound. I've seen it with past cleaners and if you want even mild liquid paste type cleaners.

The other thing I tell guys if using a brush (and no abrasives) is to flush the brush with solvent regularly. Why? The hard carbon deposits can lay in the bristles and the hard carbon deposits/particles will scratch the bore also.

 

[jelenko]

f using a brush (and no abrasives) is to flush the brush with solvent regularly

Good point!

 

[BoydAllen]

Years back, I decided that I did not want to be brushing with a slurry of powder fouling and bits of glass from primer residue. From that point forward I started with short stroked patches, brushing after that, and then following with a couple of wet patches before letting things soak for a quarter hour or so. My rods have good ball bearing handles, and I pay attention to whether they are rotating with the rifling. None of my barrels show any ill effects from using bronze brushes. I take care not to extend my rod out of the muzzle any more than absolutely necessary, and I wipe off my rods every time that they are removed from a barrel. I also pay a lot of attention to keeping them straight behind the bore as they are being used.

 

[Brians356]

I use Iosso in the shop just on a tight fitting patch. Flitz is in my traveling kit. I've seen bad things happen when a brass brush is involved.
Everything in moderation.

The best way I've found to make a tight-fitting patch for short-stroking with something like Iosso or Corbin's is to wrap one cylindrically (like a paper towel on the roll) a few times around a Parker-Hale style jag like this one. You can make it as tight as you want, and uniformly along it's whole length. With a jag a bit small for the bore, just add more wraps.


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[DaveTooley]

Years back, I decided that I did not want to be brushing with a slurry of powder fouling and bits of glass from primer residue. From that point forward I started with short stroked patches, brushing after that, and then following with a couple of wet patches before letting things soak for a quarter hour or so. My rods have good ball bearing handles, and I pay attention to whether they are rotating with the rifling. None of my barrels show any ill effects from using bronze brushes. I take care not to extend my rod out of the muzzle any more than absolutely necessary, and I wipe off my rods every time that they are removed from a barrel. I also pay a lot of attention to keeping them straight behind the bore as they are being used.[/QUOTE

One wet patch to start with and brushes last a lot longer. Kinds reinforces that fact you don't want to use an abrasive on a brush. If it's wearing out the brush faster it's having an affect on the barrel.

 

[6.5grendel]

I'll throw this in there as well. So food for thought for you guys.

It got broke off in my butt on BRC some years back. That the brush cannot hurt the bore of the barrel. Guy even went on to say that the brush is only 80 on the BHN scale and the barrel steel is 300. He measured them. I say 285 but close enough.

My come back is....Why can water erode rocks?

Water erodes rocks by dissolving the minerals in the rocks and by the particals carried in the water scratching the rocks. A lot like a bronze brush carrying an abrasive paste and cleaner through the bore. Water is softer than rocks but that's not really what's doing the damage. Similar to a soft bronze brush in a hard stainless barrel. I'm not dissagreeing with anyone at all. I don't know if a bronze brush and cleaner can damage a barrel. I have a lot less experience than a lot of you on this issue and have a lot to learn. I'm interested in everyone's opinion on this topic. I don't know which side of the fence to stand on.

 

[FrankG]

My water and rock comparison is the short version. Yes it's the repetitive force of the water and the particles/minerals. So it's the combination that erodes the rocks etc..

That's my point. The brush and in conjunction with an abrasive will accelerate the wear and or damage being done to the bore of the barrel and now factor in the person doing the cleaning and how aggressive they are while doing the cleaning.

 

[FrankG]

The best way I've found to make a tight-fitting patch for short-stroking with something like Iosso or Corbin's is to wrap one cylindrically (like a paper towel on the roll) a few times around a Parker-Hale style jag like this one. You can make it as tight as you want, and uniformly along it's whole length. With a jag a bit small for the bore, just add more wraps.

View attachment 1204327
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My favorite cleaning jag!

 

[Brians356]

Water erodes rocks by dissolving the minerals in the rocks and by the particals carried in the water scratching the rocks.

There are two additional mechanisms: tumbling and freezing.
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[INTJ]

IIRC, JB and Rem Bore Cleaner instructions say to wrap a patch on a brush. What would be the difference between using a patch on a bronze brush with JB/RBC/Iosso or using a patch wrapped on a jag?

 

[Brians356]

IIRC, JB and Rem Bore Cleaner instructions say to wrap a patch on a brush. What would be the difference between using a patch on a bronze brush with JB/RBC/Iosso or using a patch wrapped on a jag?

The Parker-Hale type jag provides firmer support, and the brush may poke bristles through the patch (which I'm not convinced would be injurious.)
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[jelenko]

Well. After JB'ing lots and seeing significantly less carbon in the first part of the barrel, tried it out at the range. Essentially no difference. Still 2+ inch groups all vertical - none wider than 11-1 or 7-5. Also used a different barrel nut.

Put the Shilen back on, nice tight groups.

While it'll be about a wash on $, I am going to send it off to have it recrowned.