What do you guys think about the new 30 RAR

[tammons]

Thats the new Remington 30 AR.

Its sort of a fatter 30BR case to run in an ar15.

Its almost the exact same length 25d shoulder
formed from 284 brass. Should hold about 3-4 gr
more powder.

I think they are going to put some funky rim size
on it though so who knows on that point.

Sounds interesting though.

This is what I cooked up on RCBS from their case dimensions.

 

[Cheechako]

Is this for real???

Lookee here. The one on the far right.

Ray

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The 30 Major is a 6.5 Grendel necked up to 30 cal. Being based on an already proven cartridge in an ar15, I think it makes more sense than reinventing the wheel. I would expect mag problems and more bolt thrust from the larger diameter case. The ar15 platform is the limiting factor that makes it unuseable for many fine cartridges. JMHO---Mike Ezell

 

[Spook]

I think I'd like it necked to .260 with a 130 JLK and a 30 degree shoulder...and Lapua making the brass.
Should work well as is for the intended purpose though.

Ray, what is that short fat one in the middle? P1-11...30 WSSM?

 

[Cheechako]

Spook

It's a wildcat of Ray Perry. Perry Improved. Based on the WSM case. I don't think the WSSM brass was around when he designed it.

Ray

 

[tammons]

Its for real, and its not a WSSM and its not 7.62/grendel case either. Its based on a shortened 284 case.

Link...


http://outdoorlife.blogs.com/thegunshots/2008/10/first-look-30-r.html

 

[Cheechako]

The 300x42 was my wildcat, also made from shortened 284 brass with a 25 degree shoulder. It was a wildcat from about 15 years ago. The 30 Fat Albert was another as was George Myer's 30 Myer. Do you suppose somebody from Big Green was at a Benchrest match when those were being used, and took notes?

Ray

 

[Aussie_bob]

Realy i cant see why they cant get better velocity they need to look at the twist rate.
I have used 125gr projectiles in my 30BR and with 33grs got over 3000fps i have used the new Sierra 135gr projectiles and achieved 3000Fps even better in a 30X47 made on the lapua 6.5X47 case but useing 17 twist barrel.
Can`t have done too much research.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Looks like they made up some 4 round single stack magazines for it. They may work. I suspect that they will have bolt problems at the pressures they are stateing in an AR15.JMHO.--Mike

 

[jthyttin]

Mike, I don't see point in 30 Major, you can squeeze 30cal IPSC major out of AR-15 with 7.62x39. It also cycles good,given you're using the right design and right mags). But 30cal major even in AR-10 is kind of counter-productive, "worst" gamesmen are using 260Rem since it makes bullet weight/amount of gas/muzzle pressure equation better for IPSC...

I bet they're really not making up any mags, just using regular 223 mags with single-column followers. And single-column mag makes very much sense, when you don't need the capacity.

Aussie_bob, you cannot compare AR-15 and bolt gun, even remotely. 284 case makes for some serious limitations in AR-15, in pressure and otherwise.

Cheechako, it was only matter of time before somebody came up with 284 based medium caliber cartridge in AR-15,compare to 450 Bushmaster). I was toying with an idea of 6.5-450 Bushmaster maybe 1.5 years ago but fortunately didn't...

Summary: I welcome this new cartridge since at worst it means that more components are available for AR-15 wildcatting.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

jthyttin, I've yet to see a reliable 7.62x39 magazine for an AR15. The straight portion of the magazine necessary because of the straight mag well of the ar and the tapered body of the X39 case just don't work together reliably in Hi-cap mags. If it did, I think you would see more people useing them in competition and shooting major power factor with them, taking advantage of the scoreing advantage of shooting "major". There are people still trying to get major from the 6.5 Grendel for this very reason,along with the reliability of the straight Grendel case in an AR.The problem is makeing major at safe pressures. That's resolved when you go to the 30 caliber instead of the 6.5.
As to the AR10, they're too big and heavy for the run and gun game IMO.

 

[jthyttin]

As long as IPSC paper targets are kept as big as they are, major PF is not viable option for rifle. It's just too fast to get honest A hits with minor. There's a change coming, hopefully, so that 2/3 sized targets will be "legal".

No matter if you get AR-15 size major PF gun cycling reliably, it will be so much slower to shoot than full raceguns in 223 cal. There's huge gap in PF between minor and major, compared to pistol,150/320 in rifle, 125/160-170 in pistol).

If you want reliable mag in AR-15 platform and 7.62x39, just look at AR-47. Here's first hit from search engine:

http://www.sr-25.com/New%20AR47.htm

I know of no serious Open shooters with major PF gun. Some guys in Standard try to compete with major, and I've contemplated with the idea myself. I think that major PF gun *may* give you some safety margin on longer shots,150y and up) when you're using irons.

Of course I speak from Finnish perspective, but I think the game is not so different when compared to US, since a friend of mine has repeatedly kicked Matt Burkett's ass in European matches,with long guns, that is)

 

[olympian]

The 30 RAR does not look like such a good idea to me. What will it do that a Grendel cannot do from a practical perspective for hunters, which I assume is Remington's market?

The 6.8 Remington did not make much impact on the market like I think R-P was thinking, and I do not see this round making a significant impact either. If you want a handy Remington, get a Model Seven and learn how to shoot.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

jthyttin

No offense, but if you're shooting all A's, you're shooting too slow.
Recoil from my mpf load in the 30 Major with a brake is no worse than a .223 without a brake.
Yes, there are some courses/stages where it's not advantageous.
I'll check those mags out. Thanks---Mike

 

[jthyttin]

Everybody, excuse us for talking about run'n'gun stuff,IPSC)...

Mike, no offense taken. But if you're shooting minor, you should be shooting a lot more A's than if you're shooting major. Just take a look at PD division in pistol shooting. Mandatory minor scoring slows guys down considerably,very restricted shooting while moving etc.)

You say that recoil in major gun is no more than in a non-braked minor gun. You have tried real IPSC race guns in 223, right? The recoil is non-existent, although the guns are highly specialized equipment and will be cleaned between every stage, in worst examples. The reciprocating masses are considerably cut down, gas is cut down etc.

BTW, recoil with my non-optimized Major PF load in semi-race 16" FAL,South-African 145gr "NATO", PF=350) is considerably less than non-braked 223 AR-15. 308 has better gas volume than any major in AR-15 platform, and thus better brake efficiency, but I still won't consider it as on-par with a proper 223 AR-15.

I haven't been competing for a year or so, but I still know guys who can double-tap A zone hits at 150m,165y) *while training*. Can you do that with a major PF gun? I also want to remind of rule 1.2.1.5 which states that 30% of targets should be less than 60m, 50% between 60m and 150m and 20% between 150m and 300m.

In fact, all of the guys I know who shoot on top level, use minor in rifle and those same guys are using major in pistol competitions. PD division is exempt, of course. It's just that rifle divisions are not suited for major,semi-auto at least, we don't shoot the manual divisions so I cannot comment on that).

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I'm very aware of what you speak. I build these race guns for a living. I have a match that I've got to get ready for and can't talk now. I'll get back with you on here Sunday or Monday.--Mike

 

[Ogre6br]

looks like an invention looking for a place to be use full
not a use full invention

make a 30 Grendel if you want a 30 cal

the grendel works why try and re-invent the wheel AGAIN

Later
P

 

[tammons]

Its Remington that is re-inventing the wheel.

 

[jthyttin]

Please!!!

30 RAR is not comparable to 30 Grendel,or 7.62x39 for that matter). The case volume is much more, and hunters can tolerate the resulting single-stack magazine.

I'm not promoting 30 RAR or anything, I just ask that you give it "a fair trial". Working on the info given by our editor, 44gr powder capacity is nothing to sneeze at,http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/remington-introduces-new-30-remington-ar-cartridge/).

How on earth you're comparing something in PPC case with that? You do understand that you're comparing PPC case and shortened 284 case, right?

P.S. Mike, hope you had a good match!

 

[constructor]

123gr in a 20" grendel at 2500fps and a 123gr in a 20" 30 RAR which is larger than a BR, probably 2900fps+
Just not the same game.