what comes 1st OCW or seating depth ?

[Coyotefurharvester]

Because of mag length restriction on some HUNTING rifles/gas guns, plus I want experience working with non lead bullets(because the lead insanity continues). I have been starting 0.020-0.050 or more to fit mags (lead - non lead) off touch and powder charge testing for minimal vertical dispersion. Than I play with seating depth, depending on the accuracy/type of hunting requirements.

 

[r bose]

Because of mag length restriction on some HUNTING rifles/gas guns, plus I want experience working with non lead bullets(because the lead insanity continues). I have been starting 0.020-0.050 or more to fit mags (lead - non lead) off touch and powder charge testing for minimal vertical dispersion. Than I play with seating depth, depending on the accuracy/type of hunting requirements.

Agree!! Original post states "hunting rifles". In any hunting rifle, loads have to function first, from a mag and definitely not jamming bullets into the lands trying to get another tenth of a MOA tighter group.

He's reloading for a hunting rifle. Not an F-class or bench rifle but advise always seems to lean toward that.

 

[r bose]

I do seating depth first. There’s nothing more important so I start there. I started that about 10 years ago and there’s no going back. It’s amazing how much better it works for me. You get the depth right and powder charge is dang near irrelevant.

You can find a load that shoots either way, but powder first usually results in a one trick pony whereas depth first creates very wide accuracy nodes.

I think that when you hear a real successful BR shooter does powder first, it’s almost certainly because he’s shot the same bullet in the same chamber with the same barrel configuration for so long that he knows he’s probably within .004 of perfect and so combustion comes first.

Despite whatever you decide, test in .002 or .003 increments with hybrids/VLD and .005 with the fat nose tangent stuff .

Seating depth in a mag fed hunting rifle will be predetermined. This is not a bench rest gun.

 

[Jvance513]

Long range benchrest shooter here. I do seating depth first. It rules out wasting too much time on a bullet that just won’t shoot. I take known powder charge that should be pretty close to what I know works. I personally work seating depth at 100 yards in 3 shot groups. I then set my shotmarker up and run the powder test at 600. After my 600 tune is found, I go to 1000 with my shotmarker. All 3 shot groups until it looks promising then I do 5 for the light gun, and 10 for my heavy gun. I have a mobile loading set up I take to the range and do all my load development there. I had a fireform gun built with my reamer just to fireform my brass and I use the first 50 pieces once fireformed to do a barrel break in and a seating depth test so I have brass that is good and fireformed and neck tensions are good for my load development at distance and I use the other 50 pieces as sighters/foulers so I’m not wasting any of the first 50 on that stuff and it’s only for actual development. This method has worked very well for me for my match guns. If it’s a hunting gun, I pick my bullet I want, set it at max mag length and run a powder test. If that powder doesn’t work try another. If that doesn’t work, repeat with a different bullet. And if that doesn’t work, call the gunsmith for a barrel

 

[jelenko]

Agree!! Original post states "hunting rifles". In any hunting rifle, loads have to function first, from a mag and definitely not jamming bullets into the lands trying to get another tenth of a MOA tighter group.

He's reloading for a hunting rifle. Not an F-class or bench rifle but advise always seems to lean toward that.

Yeah - All of the replies seem to assume single loading.

I'm gobsmacked.

 

[Bc'z]

Agree!! Original post states "hunting rifles". In any hunting rifle, loads have to function first, from a mag and definitely not jamming bullets into the lands trying to get another tenth of a MOA tighter group.

He's reloading for a hunting rifle. Not an F-class or bench rifle but advise always seems to lean toward that.

This target is from a hunting rifle, seating test was preformed 1st followed with charge in OCW format.
6.5-284, H4350, 140 VLD Hunter.

Magazine restrictions start at max length allowed and preform seating test if that's the box your in.

 

[Willoughby]

Including for a hunting rifle? I assume rounds for a hunting rifle have to fit into the mag.

most , but seekins has a very generous mag box length

 

[Clancy]

There is only one reason a hunting rifle has a limitation on seating depth, and that’s a failure to plan ahead. Only reason. Period.

If that’s the case, it doesn’t make him a bad guy. Live, learn, and order some Berger Classic Hunters.

 

[Willoughby]

I was basically trying to see if anyone STARTED with seating depth -a method I just recently heard of . I never have . I've always started at the lands worked up the top 2 or 3 charge weights and 1 over looking for pressure. THEN after finding forgiving charges with good vertical start backing up .005 looking for better horizontal . as for mag length I either modified boxes or single loaded. Seekins mag boxes don't have this problem, thanks to all your replies and for for sharing your experience. I am very familiar with the 300wm and have had several -almost all have liked the same loads. the prc is new to me but it seems to be a improved wm .time will tell .

 

[LCazador]

For a hunting rifle where the rounds have to fit into the mag?

Yes, and yes. You want it shoot where you aim right? Shoot straight hunt ethically.

 

[Clancy]

Yes, and yes. You want it shoot where you aim right? Shoot straight hunt ethically.

It has always amazed me that people find putting holes in paper to be superior to taking a life. I tune everything I hunt with like I’m at the Super Shoot.

@G Love knows my least favorite phrase is “that’s good enough for hunting.”

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I always seat the bullet 12-15 thou off and do the powder ladder. I never start at the low end - waste of components - start about 90% of Hodgdon's max. Verify with a 2 x 5 shot groups ( all at 100 yds). Then take the rifle to 300 then 500 yds and do seating depth tests, using a Garmin chrono and the target to tell the story. I use Wilson seaters at the range - loads set at home to touch point and go from there. I have just done loads for a new 308 with 185 Bergers. The powder charge tests were done and dusted in half an hour - as I didn't want a compressed load - so started 1 grain off my expected load. Length was an easy job, as 15 thou off worked just fine ( 2013 FTR team reamer). Now I just have to check the load for some Starline brass, that I will use at the club, saving the Lapua for competition.

 

[jelenko]

Yes, and yes. You want it shoot where you aim right? Shoot straight hunt ethically.

Ah. Completely agree to tune your rifle.
I was commenting [not as clearly needed] on the idea of starting the seating test at touch. For rounds that must fit in a mag, that seems like a waste of time and components.

 

[Bc'z]

Ah. Completely agree to tune your rifle.
I was commenting [not as clearly needed] on the idea of starting the seating test at touch. For rounds that must fit in a mag, that seems like a waste of time and components.

I've worked with quite a few factory SA hunting rifles where magazine restrictions left a loaded round .050-.060 OFL/jump.
Start seating there in .003 increments

 

[bobinpa]

Long range benchrest shooter here. I do seating depth first. It rules out wasting too much time on a bullet that just won’t shoot. I take known powder charge that should be pretty close to what I know works. I personally work seating depth at 100 yards in 3 shot groups. I then set my shotmarker up and run the powder test at 600. After my 600 tune is found, I go to 1000 with my shotmarker. All 3 shot groups until it looks promising then I do 5 for the light gun, and 10 for my heavy gun. I have a mobile loading set up I take to the range and do all my load development there. I had a fireform gun built with my reamer just to fireform my brass and I use the first 50 pieces once fireformed to do a barrel break in and a seating depth test so I have brass that is good and fireformed and neck tensions are good for my load development at distance and I use the other 50 pieces as sighters/foulers so I’m not wasting any of the first 50 on that stuff and it’s only for actual development. This method has worked very well for me for my match guns. If it’s a hunting gun, I pick my bullet I want, set it at max mag length and run a powder test. If that powder doesn’t work try another. If that doesn’t work, repeat with a different bullet. And if that doesn’t work, call the gunsmith for a barrel

Ok. I understand everything you are saying BUT what if this is a new to me cartridge and I don't have a "known powder charge that should be pretty close to what I know works."?

If I am starting with a new cartridge - something I have never shot or loaded for - should I:
A - Do a pressure test and start just a little less than max ?
B - Try a load from a book? If it's a published cartridge...
C - Trust what is written on the internet?

I am assuming, for a new cartridge, I should do a pressure test, establish my max charge weight, then back down a little and start with seating depth.... Correct??

 

[sfsiegel]

I loaded the other day for my sons 2 rifles 6.5 creedmores. Made 4 different charges 10 rounds per charge. 39.5, 40.0, 40.5, 41.0 IMR 4350. Measured chamber depth of both rifles the weatherby and savage. Decided on a depth for all 40 rounds using 140 gr sierra. The depth on the weatherby seated .060 from the lanze at all charges shot 3/4 inch groups at 100 yds with the 40.5 charge which was the best of all 4 but all 4 I would have gone to the woods with. The savage however wasn't as good being constant yet wider groups. The seating depth measures .015 from the lanze with those rounds. So I think now, seemingly having some decent charges, would be for me to play with the seating depth for the savage maybe measuring a couple rounds less than or greater the .015 from the lanze for the savage and trying them. Although factory 130gr Hornady shoot really tight in that rifle. Haven't measured the factory rounds for lanze distance seemingly would be comparing apples to oranges against the factory vs reload.

 

[Fast14riot]

My process with a new rifle or chambering to me is always a coarse ladder pressure test so I can find where my max is and get an idea of velocity range with whichever bullet I intend to shoot. This is just to set my limits. This is for all my rifles, hunting and target.

Next I will do a seating depth test with a modest charge thats close to the calculated OBT node. I've found best efficiency of time and ammo to be loading all my ammo to my longest BTO, bring my arbor press and seating die to the range and seat bullets deeper as I go. If the first two don't touch or are not anywhere near POA, I move on to the next seating depth. If I identify a good seating depth, I can just seat more to confirm it.

Now that's done, you should have a small amount of 2x fired brass that should be fairly well fire formed to your chamber. This is when I start my fine tune powder test. My coarse ladder test helped narrow down a window I want to explore and with seating depth figured out I don't need to wonder if a bad group is due to powder or seating depth.

You should now have a good combination that will give expected performance, and can shoot a confirming target (5x5, 10rd groups, cold bore only, etm).

 

[G Love]

It has always amazed me that people find putting holes in paper to be superior to taking a life. I tune everything I hunt with like I’m at the Super Shoot.

@G Love knows my least favorite phrase is “that’s good enough for hunting.”

Should be a Hornady slogan.

It depends on the bullet for me. That being said, 90% of the time I'm going to find the seating depth it likes first. 2-3 grains below max, again it depends, but something like .005, .010, .020, .030 off, etc. Typically, something will shoot. Then I do powder. May tweak seating again after and will anyway once it's 150-200 in.

There are a couple bullets that I'll just seat 20 or 30 off and run powder. Mainly varmint bullets.

In your case, I'd be shooting a 215 Hybrid or 205 Elite, so seating would definitely come first.

 

[Webster]

when finding a load for a new barrel what comes 1st ?
finding charge weight at or near lands then finding best seating depth
or starting at a single low charge weight and trying different seating depths
edit to add-- I'm loading for 2 new hunting rifles in 300wm and 300prc both are 10 twist
it seems to me any load work up should start with powder charge for vertical dispersion then seating depth for horizontal dispersion -not the other way around ---but I'm here to learn so please inform me the correct way

Big assumption that powder is the only vertical component and seating depth is horizontal. Seems to ignore how the barrel is vibrating. Either way look for the best groups.