What Causes Horizontal Stringing ?

[waldo1979]

That's not stringing.

+1 one flyer outside the group isn't stringing. Looks like you pulled the shot, some dry fire exercises can help you confirm. Maybe you're getting excessive firing pin jump. Is it only that load causing issue? What rear bag are you using?

Normally when wind throws me off I get some vertical as well.

 

[243winxb]

If bullet impact walks in one direction as the barrel heats, i seen where the barrel is not square to the action.

A barrel that walks shots away from point of aim is fit to a receiver whose face isn't squared up with the barrel thread axis.

See post #4 https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=559971

 

[Tom Thomson]

I think that savagedash has the right question. Are you seeing horizontal dispersion or horizontal stringing? You would look for different causes depending on which it is.
tommyt

 

[Raptor]

I am experiencing the same thing with my 6.5 Creedmoor. This rifle was shooting around 1.5"s or less @ 300yds and now it is shooting 1.2"s at 100yds. I lost my old bullet comparator and have a fresh batch of 139 Lapuas. I have changed scopes because I thought that is what it was and it is still doing it. I tried some different seating depths and shot it at 100yds and had a 1.3 inch group in a nice horizontal line. I tried another group and it put the fist 3 shots into a oblong key hole and the last two 3/4" on each side of the group. I shot it at 300yds the other day with my old load and it shot a horizontal line with 1/2" of vertical. About 2"s wide. It is driving me crazy!!!!!

 

[savagedasher]

I am experiencing the same thing with my 6.5 Creedmoor. This rifle was shooting around 1.5"s or less @ 300yds and now it is shooting 1.2"s at 100yds. I lost my old bullet comparator and have a fresh batch of 139 Lapuas. I have changed scopes because I thought that is what it was and it is still doing it. I tried some different seating depths and shot it at 100yds and had a 1.3 inch group in a nice horizontal line. I tried another group and it put the fist 3 shots into a oblong key hole and the last two 3/4" on each side of the group. I shot it at 300yds the other day with my old load and it shot a horizontal line with 1/2" of vertical. About 2"s wide. It is driving me crazy!!!!!

Change shooter . Have someone else shoot the gun. If he has the same results it's not you Larry

 

[Frankr]

Thanks for the info guys...I think we have ruled it as vertical grip/front bag ect .
if you actually read the first post I said it seems odd that every time it does not shoot well it is always Horizontal and I have never experienced that before..not that it does not shoot well but when it does not it is always horizontal,enough that I said hun wonder what the cause is? I feel it is shooter/bag set up but if someone maybe had some experience or areas where to look to fix it. The 500 yard target the one hung out to the left was not caused by wind or conditions..the low shot was me bad trigger,got away from me..the one to the left is the question..load,operator,bag set up ect..conditions were right to left..If I could not see them or the order how do I know..experience...But I have never had to fix a horizontal problem that I could not explain..I think it's me or bag set up and that is most likely what it is..But it never hurts to ask for some help from other experienced shooter.

 

[BoydAllen]

I looked over your posts and must have missed the part where you described the bedding that was done, or the part where you said that you had wind flags out. What scope and mount setup are you running and did you properly install the base(s) and lap the rings, or is this a bolt together and go deal? How much float does your barrel have? How did you work up your load? You said that you lost your comparitor. How did you establish your seating depth? .

 

[Raptor]

Boyd, thanks for the reply. Fist off the gun is pillar bedded in a McMillan stock. There is over an 1/8" around the barrel and The rifle was set up with my old comparator. The bases are Leupold and the rings are Burris the scope is a MK4 Leupold. This is the second scope on the rifle by the way. Everything is tight. This is probably about the 4th or 5th barrel on this set up. Like I said in the beginning it was shooting between 1.3 and 1.6" groups at 300yds. I do tactical shooting and this is good enough for what I do. We do not use range flags nor have I ever used them. These groups are shot when the wind is not blowing over 5 to 7mph which is a calm day in South Dakota. I mostly shoot prone of off the hood of my PU. Yesterday I was at a 100yd range on a concrete bench using a rest and rear bag. Even my groups at 100yds yesterday were horizontal. Like I said in the early post the first 3 shots were in a raged key hole and the last two were 3/4"s on each side of that group.

I bought a new Sinclair comparator and of course it does not read the same as my old one. I had to start all over again plus I have a different
batch of bullets. My other problem is I broke my Hornady OAL gauge so I am waiting on it. However using the same "Seating depth" I had, the gun is stringing horizontally. I just finished building an AR10 and was shooitng it under the same conditions with a damn 4lb trigger pull and it was shooting way better than my bolt gun in the same conditions. When my OAL gauge gets here I am going to start all over again with seating depth and see if I can bring it back again to where it was. The barrel just hit 1000rds and has been only shot in one match so it was not abused.

 

[Frankr]

Raptor so you think it is your seating depth ? If it is how are you going to correct it?

I really think my problem is just operator error but I have not ruled out it could be something else. (it is not the rifle or scope) for sure.
I decided on my seating depth shooting 200 yards groups. 3 shots... I went in .5 gr incerments and over a 2.0 gr spread
I had the same group height. in other words no vertical in over 2.0 gr powder difference I decided not to mess with that.
actually I think I started low and works up 3.0 grs of powder and only had about a bullet hole of vertical.most of the 3 shot groups were in the same point of impact horizontally and I have shot several groups around mid .300's at 200 yards so I said good enough.
what is odd about mine is it is not there every group..sometimes it shoots great but when ever it does not it is always Horizontal. I think mine is just me and the vertical grip small forend hard torque at recoil. But you ask yourself well I turned in some outstanding groups and now you are seeing Horizontal you can not explain with conditions...so I just got lazy on my control due to it shot so well or what..I just don't know..I was going to load up and head to the range today but just don't feel like it..

 

[Homerange]

@Raptor
Is your scope a Vari power?
Did it string with the previous scope?

An old Vari Leupold we had would shake the reticule when dry fired and we sent it back to have it rebuilt.

 

[Raptor]

FJIM, I honestly don't know what it is at this point. I changed scopes and "Feel" like I am doing things right but at this point who the hell knows. I am just so frustrated with it right now. If its me then what am I doing different now that I "Wasn't" doing before?? And why can I shoot good groups with Another rifle at the same range and time I can't shoot well with this one?? I have checked everything on the rifle and changed scopes on it. The only thing I can hang my hat on is the load. Or maybe I have slipped a cog when it comes to shooting this particular rifle....Thanks for the replies!!

 

[rogn]

I once had an issue with a hunting rifle that would group 1/2" vertical and 3-4" horizontal with a given powder and bullet. Almost as bad with other loads. Traced down to a piece of bedding flake that had found its way under the action during one of the pull apart and put togethers. Cleaned it out and cleaned up and things went back to normal.

 

[Raptor]

@Raptor
Is your scope a Vari power?
Did it string with the previous scope?

An old Vari Leupold we had would shake the reticule when dry fired and we sent it back to have it rebuilt.

This one is fine and so was the other. I had sent them both back to Leupold to be checked over. I took the one I have on it now off my 6SLR and it was shooting very well when I took it off...

 

[Nude nut]

W

What would or could be the cause of Horizontal in a group...?
I have a rifle that when it does not shoot well it is almost always Horizontal I can not figure it out.
shooting off a front rest and rear bag setup..like a BR set up but a sporter type stock/Mcmillan Game Scout. shooting 200 yards, most of the time when it does not shoot well it is Horizontal. I am leaning tward shooter bench set up but need some other input.

Thanks.

Wont get to deep but my thoughts,
Wind Wind Wind, trigger control or seating depth.

Cheers Trev.

 

[SaulGoodman]

I had a similar problem to yours OP when shooting my AR-15. Nothing changed on the rifle and I had been shooting it great for well over 2 years then all of the sudden I started getting horizontal strings. Luckily I had a nra hp high master give me a once over on my technique and he saw right away that I was torquing the rifle with the grip causing horizontal stringing. A simple adjustment of the wrist solved the issue. Somehow I developed a bad habit over the winter season I guess. Assuming your rifle, ammo, and wind conditions are all good, record a video of yourself shooting and maybe someone can offer some input

 

[Jammer Six]

As for you A-Holes if you actually read the first post I said it seems odd that every time it does not shoot well it is always Horizontal and I have never experienced that before..not that it does not shoot well but when it does not it is always horizontal,enough that I said hun wonder what the cause is?

It's not the gun.

 

[Frankr]

It's not the gun.

Yea No Way it's the Gun..It was smithed by one of the very best and has turned in some 200 yards groups around mid .300's and a few .110's at a 100 yards..shoots better than I could ever expect..Bedding is right it's not moving.
pined 20 moa base Nightforce rings and scope.
I will work on fixing me and my bag set up but will also try a few loads at a different seating depth. wont hurt to load up ten rounds in or out some to test one day but like I said I think it's me but the info is leaning to seating depth if it's not.

 

[Raptor]

I haven't got my OAL gauge yet so I haven't shot my Creedmoor but I went out this morning with two 308s that have the same style of stocks on them. One is a Vietnam era M40 (Wood stock) and the other is the M40A1 with the McMillan stock just like the Creedmoor. I wanted to chronograph some loads and shot some pretty decent groups with both of these rifles. I had no problem with horizontal stringing with either one of these rifles.

 

[JFM33]

Curious ,how old is the firing pin spring.
If it's over a year it could be giving inconsistent ignition.
Good luck John

 

[Raptor]

John, that bolt and firing pin is on its third or fourth barrel. So maybe that is a problem. I put a Jewel trigger in it and tore the gun apart could not find anything off. The other day it shot 4 rounds into a 3/4" group at 300yds and the 5th went left over an inch. Then the next group was about a 3" horizontal line with a vertical of 3/4". I am doing load testing with a damn AR10 I built in a 308 with a 4lb trigger and it is shooting around 1.5 " groups at the same time with 3 different loads at 300yds!! For some reason it just went off the rails. It used to shoot so damn good and now it is so inconsistent!! I have another rifle I will pull the firing pin out of and try it in the bolt.....