What can be done with a Mosin Nagant 91/30

[Rock Knocker]

well i bought one of these old dogs for $100 bucks several years ago just because i wanted i higher caliber rifle with open sights just for screwing around. Its been ten or so years now and i like the ugly thing so much ive shot more deer with it than my bright shiney remington 700 with a leupold 3-9. I was just wondering if anything can be done with these things to possibly bring it into some competitions... would one of these things be considered a service rifle?

Im just curious to see if anyone has put some work into these rifles and what kind of potentail they may have.

 

[wesleysgreen]

Service Rifle YES! really a great rifle, first 7.62mm x 54mm. used as a service rifle and sniper rifle until the draganov replaced it even then some kept using it. you might have a U.S version made in the early 1900 for Russia. I would say to keep it origional and keep having fun with it! Wes

 

[TonyR]

Service rifle as Wes says. There was an article in one of the gun mags, Precision Shooter or American Rifleman, comparing the various options for the vintage military rifle competition classes and I believe that you have what was said to be among the best.
Have fun.

 

[Rock Knocker]

Well, good to know. I think im going to have to look for a set of dies for the 7.62x54r. Ive not had the best luck finding ammo for it, but ive kept all the brass ive shot.

 

[15Tango]

What can be done with Mosin rifle? Country can be taken back from fascist with best rifle ever make. It is most under rate rifle. Rifle is fine!

 

[45bpcr]

One of my Buddy's and I bought a case of M-44's, the carbine version of the 91-30 with the attached bayonet.
I always bring mine to the range. Sometimes I even shoot it.

But most of the time I fold out the bayonet, and ram it in the ground, and use the rifle as a mount for my spotting scope.

Hey It only cost me $65.00 so don't hate me

Craig

 

[2506]

45bpcr those M-44's are bringing $300 or more at gun shows these days.

For some good information on what can be done with a 91/30 MN go to www.surplusrifle.com and look around on the forums. There you will find a way to shim the action and float and dampen the barrel and really make them shoot accurately without permanent alteration of the rifle. I have some that will shoot under 1" 5 shot groups at 100 yards with open sights and the below hand load.

On the above mentioned site you will also find that some have really modified these rifles and added scopes, triggers and stocks and really made some fine rifles. Timney now makes an adjustable trigger for them.

I have made some really fine shooting rifles out of the Mosin Nagant rifles.
The first thing to do if you are going to reload for it is to slug the bore. These rifles have very generous bores. I use .315 diameter muzzle loader lead balls but you can use a fishing sinker about the same diameter. Drop one into the chamber and using the metal cleaning rod to start the ball down the bore by tapping it with a hammer. Then use wood dowel rods to drive it through and out the muzzle. Measure between the high spots. This will give you the groove diameter. If it measures .310 to .3105 use .311 diameter bullets. If it measures .3105 to .3115 use .312 diameter bullets.

I have found that most of these rifles like heavy bullets 174 to 180 gr.
THE LOAD: 50 grs Accurate Arms 4350, CCI 200 primer, .311 diameter 174 Sierra Match King or 180 SP bullet, OAL 3.000". For rifles that need .312 diameter bullets use the Hornady 174 RNSP OAL 2.790" . This next step is essential to great accuracy. Use a LEE Factory Crimp Die on all loads.

As for loading dies get a set of RCBS because they come with two expander balls. One is for the .308 bullets that I have never seen one of these rifles that would shoot them accurately because they are too small diameter. The other expander ball is for the proper .311 or .312 bullets. Then order a Lee Factory Crimp Die separately. The Lee die set comes only with an expander for use with .308 bullets also. If you try to use dies with the .308 expander and try to seat .311 or .312 bullets you usually end up with crumpled necks.

 

[DOGCAPPER]

I have one made in Finland....11*crown...good trigger...good shooter....Buy ammo with silver tip180 grain bullet...That is sniper stuff....147 grain bullet is junk...Guy I bought it off said made for officer marksmanship training...

 

[Rock Knocker]

Well under closer investigation, the whole stock is straighter than an arrow but maybe the reason its stayed straight for so long is because of how close it hugs the barrel. I couldnt fit a dollar bill under any part of it. I started scraping more of the grease out of the stock, I gave it a good once over when i bought it but now that im going to try to do some work with the wood i want it all gone. Let me tell you this grease and wood combination is sandpapers worst nightmare, i make my own bows out of osage orange and thats some tough wood but this greasy stuff clogs the sandpaper up instantly.

Ive always shot sellier & bellot 180gr. soft points out of it with good uhh... effect. Never taken more than one shot at a deer, it always passes through, ive never droped a deer in its tracks but they have never made it farther than 100 yards. i dont remember ever shooting this thing off a bench. I have a hard time missing a pop can at 50 yards and about a 6" group at 100 yards all off hand not really trying my best (like i said before i got this thing to be a $100 plinker, i leave the AR and Rem 700 to shoot ragged little holes.)


2506 Thanks for the recipe and advice. I should be able to get a RCBS neck sizing die for it no problem right? all the cases i have were shot through my rifle, and i never had too much of a problem with the gunked up chamber resulting in a stuck bolt.

Thanks everyone for all the help, im really getting quite excited about this now.

 

[M14AMU]

They make a pretty fair BOAT ANCHOR!!

 

[45bpcr]

The M-44 I was talking about was "the Runt of the Litter" so to speak. The muzzle was counter bored about 2 inches. the stocks been repaired. It "patterns" about 3 inches @ 100 yds.

I do have a 91-30 sniper with a repro scope. That was dirt money as well. The barrel looked like an old sewer pipe. So I left it out in Man Town at my shop and scrubbed it every day, for 3 weeks. I got rat bones and all kinds of evil crap out of it. After that it shoots surprisingly well. Even with surplus ammo. It'll do under an inch all day with Czech silver tip ammo.

The M-44 is a gas to shoot with Albainian heavy ball ( yellow tip ) If you can't hit anything the concusion will knok them over and the fire ball will roast them alive!

Craig

 

[2506]

Get the FL RCBS die set and just use it to part size the case as a neck sizer. You will need the FL die to bump the shoulder back eventually.

 

[Rock Knocker]

Ive read plenty about "shimming" the action. Is this ONLY because of the old school Russian texts on it? This stock looks like a sinch to put pillars in. That has to be better than some brass shims, right? I think thats what im going to try no matter what everyone else is doing. I guess i will try wraping the end of the barrel, they seem to suggest oiled felt... before i try to free float the entire thing. But my guess is that i would eventually be able to compleatley free float the barrel.

I cant tell what the upper part of the hand guard is doing though because it fits so tightly agains the forend of the stock that i cant fit any amount of paper through it, so i really cant tell how that may be effecting the barrel. But if i could free float the barrel and KNOW the upper arm guard is tightly held against the forend of the stock without touching the barrel at all i would be in good shape.

I havent even thought about any trigger work, i actually really like the trigger. It may be a long pull but for me it is very predictable. I would get rid of my heavy 3 stage trigger on my AR in a heartbeat before messing with that Mosin trigger.

 

[jonbearman]

3 stage trigger on an ar? My mosins all have lousy long triggers.There is a company that is making a ball bearing type trigger for mosins and arisakas,mausers out there.I have been on there site and cant find the link right now,but if I do I will post it.

 

[Travelor]

Here is my vote: http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/mosinsniper/index.asp

George

 

[2506]

The reason that people shim the actions is to not permanently alter the military configuration of the rifle so that they can shoot them in military matches. If you don't care about that you could get one of those composite stocks and get rid of all the upper wood and make a real sporter out of it.

 

[Laurie]

Gun Digest annual had a good piece some years back on the many original Nagant '91s that were sold by the NRA pre-WW2 and their sporterization, a near national US obsession in the hard depression years when many country people couldn't afford an American made sporting high-power rifle.

Personally, I'd leave M1891/30s as they are every time and shoot them as historic military curios. If the bore is good, they'll usually shoot surprisingly well if you can get to grips with that terrible trigger! 0.310-312" diameter bullets are pretty well essential in Soviet rifles (Finnish models rebuilt with SAKO barrels are tighter and can perform with 0.308s).

I worked for a dealership that imported refurbished M-N 1891/30s and M1944 carbines from one of the large German outfits, probably Frankonia, who bought them in from Russia. 'Fake' sniper rifles fitted with either the PU side mounted or more expensive PE top-mounted scopes were really good sellers, and I have one of the former. I say 'fake' in that they are ordinary 1891/30s retrofitted rather than original WW2 era sniper rifles. Also around in the UK in large numbers from an earlier period in the 1980s, are a lot of 1950s Polish manufactured M-Ns, carbines, rifles, and sniper rifles. They have a paler finish than the Russian made rifles and may have used a different blander wood, the Russkies being birch. In any event, they were mostly brand new, very cheap and shot well.

I've found handloads with the 123gn Lapua 0.210" dia. FMJ designed for the 7.62X39 over Viht N133, and Sierra 0.312" 174gn MatchKings over N140 or N150 shoot very well indeed. 1891/30s with 174gn SMK loads have won many sniper matches here in Historic Arms competition. The iron sights are a bit too crude to do well in ordinary historic service rifle matches up against 0.303" Enfield Number 4s, P'14s, and Ross M1910 straight-pulls with their aperture rearsights, as well as the 6.5mm M1896 Swedish Mauser.

Laurie,
York, England

 

[KevinThomas]

As Laurie mentioned, there's a bore diameter difference between the Russian and Finnish M-Ns, with the Finnish versions usually considered to be the best shooting of the breed. Most were rebarrelled with .3085"-.3095" barreles, and are intended for use with .308" bullets. This, incidentally, is the difference between the 7.62x54R and the 7.62x53R stuff that Lapua produces; bullet diameter only, with the cases being otherwise identical.

There's a couple books out on these explaining all the different variants, and they make a pretty good basis for a collection. Lots of variants out there and a pretty interesting history. The cartridge itself is quite accurate, fully equal in both accuracy and ballistics to the 30-06 or 308 family. It's been used to win any number of long range competitions and even some olympic events back in its heyday.

Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA

 

[Rock Knocker]

Im not going to change the looks of the rifle at all. I actaully just found this to use as an example... http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html

It would be easy to do on a Mosin Nagant. And not change the appearance at all. And if placing a tiny sheet of brass between the action and wood helps out, how much is this going to do? If you cant tell im not all that sold on the brass shims... or its better to say i believe it works, but i want to do more. I know if i just used shims i wouldnt be happy untill i at least tried this out. This being such an easy process i cant belive you cant find anything about it in the Mosins, only brass shims. Oh well.

Typo on the 3 stage trigger in my AR i meant 2.

But once again

I havent even thought about any trigger work, i actually really like the trigger. It may be a long pull but for me it is very predictable.

Thanks for the extra input it seemed the subject was dead there for a little while.

 

[TonyR]

Richard's pillar bedding video is excellent.