What caliber to go with for hunting?

[harry.hacking@kiewit.com]

I have been kicking this question around for awhile now and can't decide what to do. At the moment I am looking at a 7mm-08 & AI, 6.5x55 SE & AI, and a 308 win. The rifle is a m48 mauser so I am limited when it comes to cartridge length. I will be using it for some hunting (deer and elk), and some target shooting. I would be shooting at ranges out to 500 yards and would like a flat shooting cartridge.

I like the 308 because of the wide variety of bullets available 110-168 would be the range I would like to be in. I have thrown the 7mm-08 in the mix because it is a necked down 308 so it should have a flatter trajectory is theory but reloading data that I have looked at show that the 308 win still has an edge in velocity with similar sized bullets and at 500 yds the better bc bullets of the 7mm-08 haven't had enough time to gain on the 308. Is what I am seeing here correct? I like the sweed because of the 6.5 caliber I have heard alot of good things about it but I haven't found anything showing the real potential of the 6.5x55 in a strong bolt action. so here is my dilema?

 

[40X Guy]

As to your dilemma, the .308 will do anything you need it to do on whitetails, but shooting elk at 500 yards can be done but there are better cartridges out there. But if you only want to pick one from the 3 listed, I'd go .308 all the way.

Frank

 

[TonyR]

The best choice may depend on where you plan to hunt. The first thing most hunters I talk to want is easy availability of ammunition away from home. If something happens to the ammo they planned to shoot, they want to be able to replace it easily. There are probably very few places where you couldn't find something that would shoot in a 308 Win, but there are probably also places where it might be easy to find ammo for the Swede.

 

[harry.hacking@kiewit.com]

I will be hunting in the west and plan on reloading. I don't see ammunition availability being a problem for. My main hunting rifle is a 270 WSM that is shooting 140's around 3270 fps. My only complaint is that it kicks pretty hard because of its lightweight and is not pleasant to shoot paper with. With my rifle I am building I want something pleasant to shoot paper with that can still be used in the place of my 270 WSM in a pinch, or if I can ever talk my wife into hunting something that she could shoot.

 

[snowpro440]

wow I would put a brake on the 270wsm or go with a 300wsm and a brake ... you got it covered with the 300wsm ...elk n deer an paper

 

[oldroper]

I have been kicking this question around for awhile now and can't decide what to do. At the moment I am looking at a 7mm-08 & AI, 6.5x55 SE & AI, and a 308 win. The rifle is a m48 mauser so I am limited when it comes to cartridge length. I will be using it for some hunting (deer and elk), and some target shooting. I would be shooting at ranges out to 500 yards and would like a flat shooting cartridge.

I like the 308 because of the wide variety of bullets available 110-168 would be the range I would like to be in. I have thrown the 7mm-08 in the mix because it is a necked down 308 so it should have a flatter trajectory is theory but reloading data that I have looked at show that the 308 win still has an edge in velocity with similar sized bullets and at 500 yds the better bc bullets of the 7mm-08 haven't had enough time to gain on the 308. Is what I am seeing here correct? I like the sweed because of the 6.5 caliber I have heard alot of good things about it but I haven't found anything showing the real potential of the 6.5x55 in a strong bolt action. so here is my dilema?

You could do a 284 if you look at guns of the week here got some good data for the 284. I did one to hunt elk/deer here in Co this year and with R-17 and 160gr AB was a good choice.

My gunsmith build a 6.5x55AI for his hunting and he likes it. Hard to say which would be best but have one question what are you using now?

 

[harry.hacking@kiewit.com]

My main hunting rifle is a 270 WSM that is shooting 140's around 3270 fps. My only complaint is that it kicks pretty hard because of its lightweight and is not pleasant to shoot paper with. With my rifle I am building I want something pleasant to shoot paper with that can still be used in the place of my 270 WSM in a pinch,

I have looked at the 284 and the 6.5 x 284 I am afraid that the controlled round feed of the mauser would create feed problems with the rebated cartridge.

 

[mj2evans]

I love the 6.5x55 mainly because it has been very easy to find accurate loads in them quickly (maybe I was lucky three times). Oh and 6.5x55 does not beat the snot out of you. Inside 200yds with 160g bullet might be ok for Elk but I don't think any of the cartridges you listed are great elk rounds (I would want more bullet, like 338-06, for such a large animal but have *never* shot one). The only downside is I only want Lapua brass in 6.5x55 as American makers use the more common .473 head (you cry when you lose one piece of Lapua brass). That said I am sure you could kill an elk effectively with any of the listed rounds with proper shot placement, good bullet construction, and knowing your accuracy limits. Good luck.

 

[JabaliHunter]

I think I would pick the 7mm-08 and use 160gr nosler accubonds

 

[Kenny474]

If you plan to use it for Elk, I would look into the .338 Federal. It's the same case as the .308 necked up to .338 and will have a bit more punch than your other choices. It can also be loaded with 180's for deer.
But if you are stuck on your previous choices, a 7-08AI or .308 won't do all that bad either.

 

[wapiti25]

I would not use any of the cartridge's that you mention at 500yds. You need over 1000 ft/lb's on the target for deer. Elk are a lot harder to kill than any deer, I would guess as to closer to 1500 ft/lbs. I have killed about 10 elk and you do not get bang- flop as you do with deer, even with a 338 mag. The only way Iv'e seen them drop in their tracks is with a back bone hit. I dont shoot for the back bone. you have to penetrate twice the tissue or more compared to a mule deer. The cow elk that I shot last year with a muzzle loader at 70 yds using a 405 gr bullet went another 70 yds before droping, the bullet was under the hide on the other side on a quartering front shoulder to far side hit. An elk is about 23" through the shoulders. I use a 7mm Rem mag as my light gun using 160's. 30-06 with a 180 is a classsic elk gun to about 350 yds with a heart-lung hit. After that I hear of more lost animals than found.

 

[harry.hacking@kiewit.com]

It seems everyone is getting caught up around the large enough for an elk at 500 yards axle. 7mm-08 factory loads from hornady show 2950 fps w/ 139gr bullet, I ran some quick calcs it is about 1550 ft-lbs @ 500 yards. I have heard numerous stories of scandinavians taking moose with a 160 gr 6.5x55 SE. I have seen an old timer shoot a 2000 lb buffalo with a 140 gr 270 win it ran 10 ft. The point is shot placement when hunting any game is the key. Now I don't want to get off subject and get into the debate on bigger is better because I am sure some would argue that the 270 WSM isn't large enough for elk either. I have a limited case length smaller than standard 30-06 with a standard base .473, .30 caliber is the largest I would like to go and .264 is the smallest I would consider going and that is why I am asking about the 3 mentioned cartridges.

 

[TonyR]

Depending on your magazine length, the 308 may be your best choice, given your criteria. I recently worked up loads for a friend's M77 Ruger in 308 Win and I had a hard time finding a bullet in the 168gr class that would load through the magazine while the boattail was outside the donut area. The Sierra 165gr Game King meets both criteria and has proven to be extremely accurate. You might find that the heavier bullets in the smaller calibers would not feed through the magazine without being seated down in the case which could both reduce accuracy and case capacity.

 

[bheadboy]

Hack, neither the 308 ore 7-08 will have over 1300 fp at 500, with 140 or 160 gr pills, thus forget a clean elk set up, fine for deer but too little for elk,

about 350 yds is the limit for 1500fp plus for these rounds.

the other cases, except "mags" or AI versions are no better, if you want your wife to shoot it, and not hit you on the head, go 7-08, load 140s at about 2875-2900 and keep the range under 350 for elk.

THe 7mm has better bc and this round is very accurate
Bob

 

[Kenny474]

Yes, lucky shots do happen, and animals fall to underpowered rounds on occasion. It doesn't make it right or ethical. What you don't hear of are the stories from the guys using the underpowered rounds when they don't stop the animal, even with proper shot placement. You don't hear them because it doesn't make them look very intelligent for using a sub-par round and then having it fail and need to track an animal for hours or even lose it never to be seen again.

The best way to put an elk down is to blow out both front shoulders on the spot. They will run quite a ways with a lung shot, and the heart is an awful small target at 500yds in sub-par conditions. You need some serious HP to blow through both shoulders on a stocky bull, especially at 500yds. That calls for a heavy for caliber bullet of tough construction moving with some serious energy. Not what you will get at 500yds with what you have listed. Will they work out to 300? Probably, but I wouldn't chance it any farther.

I think your best bet is to make a deer rifle of it and use the WSM on the elk.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Hack, where you live contact some outfitters and pick their brains. I'd bet they have seen it all, good and bad. You can run any ballistics you want on JBM and check the FPE. This will give you the ability to make an informed desicion.

 

[harry.hacking@kiewit.com]

Let me try this again let's throw out elk hunting so we quit getting caught up around the axle over that. I have a M48 mauser action lying around and I want to make it into an enjoyable rifle to shoot it is not going to be a competition rifle and might get a shot at a deer rock chuck every once in awhile. I am limited to a case length shorter than an 06 w/ a standard base is there any other cartridges that I should take a look at or is there any more advice on the 7mm-08/7mm-08AI or the 6.5X55.

 

[1000yardstare]

+1 on the .308 Win. Or probably better the .30-06. You can find the cartridges anywhere.

I say this from practical experience dealing with other hunters who were undergoing psychological breakdowns because they:

A) forgot to pack their incredible handloads in their luggage.
B) left their perfect cartridges on the float plane dock 50 miles from the hunt camp.
C) knocked their ammo bag into 100 feet of water on the portage into the hunt camp.
D) used up all their ammo in the hunt camp sighting in a rifle that had a loose scope ring.
E) couldn`t chamber the incredible handloads in their rifle at the hunt camp.
F) (#1 on the hit parade) flew 1000 miles with cartridges that didn`t match their rifle.
G) other reasons I can`t remember at the moment.

Depending where the hunt camp is located we solve the problem by:

1) driving to a local backwoods store that has only .30/30, .243, .270, .308, .30-06.
2) ignore a blubbering mass of human jelly who spent thousands of dollars and can`t hunt.
3) (and the best, seen it a few times), the local Cree aboriginal guides pretend they don`t have any spare ammo even though they have a shelf full of ammo. An elder will mysteriously appear who wants to help the white eyes who screwed up. The elder just happens to have the XX ammo and will give the white eyes the ammo for free because the elder does not want the white eyes to leave the land with a bad memory. We spend the rest of the hunt into shaming the screw-up to give his latest born and a huge tip to the elder. The screw-up always leaves thinking he had a great hunt.

 

[firewrench044]

On my M48, I chose the 308 Wilson Military contour 1/10 twist
useing all the other parts including front and rear sights
and original scope mounts ( Mauser )
I upgraded to a match trigger and a Leupold scope

Tried 155gr and 168gr and it was OK but it loves 175gr MK
and 180gr GK bullets

recoil is about the same as the original 8 MM

hope this information helps you make your choice

 

[RonAKA]

I have been kicking this question around for awhile now and can't decide what to do. At the moment I am looking at a 7mm-08 & AI, 6.5x55 SE & AI, and a 308 win. The rifle is a m48 mauser so I am limited when it comes to cartridge length. I will be using it for some hunting (deer and elk), and some target shooting. I would be shooting at ranges out to 500 yards and would like a flat shooting cartridge.

I like the 308 because of the wide variety of bullets available 110-168 would be the range I would like to be in. I have thrown the 7mm-08 in the mix because it is a necked down 308 so it should have a flatter trajectory is theory but reloading data that I have looked at show that the 308 win still has an edge in velocity with similar sized bullets and at 500 yds the better bc bullets of the 7mm-08 haven't had enough time to gain on the 308. Is what I am seeing here correct? I like the sweed because of the 6.5 caliber I have heard alot of good things about it but I haven't found anything showing the real potential of the 6.5x55 in a strong bolt action. so here is my dilema?

I would rate your choices in this order:

1. 6.5x55 SE & AI
2. 7mm-08
3. 308 win

I think the 6.5 Swede probably can do it, but if barrel life is not a big priority, then you may want to step up to 6.5-284. Rember that retained energy at the distance you shoot to is more important than bullet weight.