What bullet-308/ 1/12" twist up to 1200 yards?

[chrisj]

I haven't been shooting 308 much these days so wondering what bullets 308 shooters are using in a 1/12" bbl for F-class or any 1000-1200 yard shooting?

Thanks,
Chris

 

[jim_k]

I think the best choice would be Hornady 178 ELD-M at about 2.880" OAL, with H4895 or IMR 4895. A 26" barrel would limp to 1200 supersonic, but if you're shooting F-class, you're going to want about a 30" barrel. The BTO consistency of loaded rounds with the Hornady ELD line is as good as any I've ever seen. Target MV for this bullet looks like 2750 to reach 1200. I have never gone past 1,000. Limiting distance to 1,000 yards opens up a whole bunch of other bullets. I think the competitors you're going to talk to are using at least 1:10 twist.

 

[benchracer]

Also consider the Sierra 175 Tipped Matchking (TMK), Sierra 155 Palma (2156), or the good old Berger 185 Juggernaut.

 

[Ned Ludd]

The best choices for shooting a .308 to those distances are going to be bullets in the 200+ gr range. However, those will usually require a minimum 11-twist, and preferably a 10-twist barrel. Another option to consider would be the Berger 168 Hybrid. It has a very high BC for its weight, will be stabilized out of a 12-twist barrel, and does not require excessively long freebore to seat them optimally.

 

[Zero333]

Any Berger Target 30 cal bullet from 168 to 210 gr. And yes, the 200 Hybrid, 200.20x and 210 vld will all work in a 11" twist barrel.

I'd probably start with the 185 Juggernaut & 185 Hybrids.

 

[Texas10]

All good bullets, unfortunately the OP has asked about a 12 twist. Will those still stabilize? Just curious.

 

[JFrank]

I have a 1-11 twist 22 inch barrel so bare with me for a moment.

I’ve tested several Bullets and powders the most impressive combination is H4895 pushing 155 Lapua Senars in the mid 2800 FPS. It would be reasonable to suggest that in a longer barrel of perhaps 29-30 inchs running a high node that 3000 FPS would be possible using the OP 1-12 twist.
The goal is to be Mach 1 at the distance.
J

 

[284winner]

I've had some real good luck with the 185 VLDs at 1200 yards. I shoot them with a 10 twist but I'm guessing a 12 would do fine.

 

[RetiredArmy]

I've had some real good luck with the 185 VLDs at 1200 yards. I shit them with a 10 twist but I'm guessing a 12 would do fine.

That must hurt!(sorry couldn't help myself)

 

[Kurz]

what bullets 308 shooters are using in a 1/12" bbl for F-class or any 1000-1200 yard shooting?

A very simple process is to use the Berger Stability Calculator in combination with some velocity charts from the bullet makers or powder makers. Given your parameters, the Berger 155.5 Full Bore is the optimum bullet with velocity left over at the 1,200 yard marker. But do not forget to calculate the Mach 1 number at the competition site as this number is a ratio not a fixed entity.

There are other bullets which will 'limp by' and can be considered but this one is an outstanding choice. I use the IMR 8208 XBR for the powder. The combination is very accurate in my 26" barrel as well as my 30" barrels.

 

[284winner]

That must hurt!(sorry couldn't help myself)

Hahaha. Proof reading isn't my strong suit !!!

 

[fyrewall]

I had a 1-12 twist .308 for some time and used the 168 Hornady match bullet but never used that combo over 600 yards. A call to Sierra pointed me to their 175 MK and I was told that bullet was designed to allow gas guns to work at 1,000 - I never tried that. Much later, after the Hornady Amax line came out, I started running the Miller Twist Program on the JBL site that allows the plastic tip length to be noted. As noted by Kurz the Berger site provides info combining twist & Sg (stability), not knowing exactly how the Berger program works, it sure looks like the Miller twist program. Using the guidance provided on a report by Dr. Courtney, I modified the Miller program on Excel for use with bullets having plastic tips and duplicated the values produced by the JBL site. Playing around with this got me into looking at plastic tip bullets for my casual long range shooting. They have to be stable & super sonic at target range

The Hornady 4DOF calculator will accept numerous Hornady bullets and a good number of non-Hornady bullets and produce "gyro" values upon entering data like the bullet selected, MV, twist, and other values. Using the Hornady & Berger calculators should provide a good selection of bullets. The Berger 155.5 Full Bore appears to be a great choice for a 1-12 twist but other pointy bullets having more weight and plastic tips might also be considered; velocity would be an important consideration. I use nothing but IMR 8208 in my .308 with 155 bullets.

edit: replace :"more weight and plastic tips" with "more weight with or without plastic tips" The Hornady 4DOF calculator also has a bunch of non-Hornady hollow point bullets.

 

[Laurie]

I have a 1-11 twist 22 inch barrel so bare with me for a moment.

I’ve tested several Bullets and powders the most impressive combination is H4895 pushing 155 Lapua Senars in the mid 2800 FPS. It would be reasonable to suggest that in a longer barrel of perhaps 29-30 inchs running a high node that 3000 FPS would be possible using the OP 1-12 twist.
The goal is to be Mach 1 at the distance.
J

As I type this there is a large field of UK Effers competing in the GB F-Class Association League Round 4 at Bisley near London in the annual 'Long-Range' weekend. This afternoon's stage will be 2+20 at 1,200 yards and there was a 2+20 at 1,100 this morning. The other three stages are all shot over 1,000.

There are still a fair few UK F/TR shooters who are very fond of 155gn bullets, although nothing like there used to be as most people here (just as in the US, Canada and down under) now prefer 200s, even the once popular 185 Juggernaut is a minority choice these days. Long before Bryan Litz designed the Berger 200/215/230 Hybrids never mind the in-200.20X, people found that they ended up in the bottom half of the match results sheets sticking to 155s at 1,100 and 1,200 in this event. They - and by that I mean no 155 irrespective of make or model - simply don't stack up in wind changes against even the 185gn Juggernaut at this distance. For years now the medal winners have shot first 210s, then the 200 and 215 Bergers, occasional heavy Hornady. I've not shot these matches for some years, so don't know what's going downrange this afternoon but it'd be a safe bet to put money on the 200.20X and a few heavy ELDs and occasional new 200gn SMK.

However in the UK and other British Commonwealth countries that indulge in long-range prone shooting with the 308, F/TR is a Johnny come lately as there is a slightly eccentric and very much older l-r discipline called 'Match Rifle' which is only shot over 1,000, 1,100, 1,200 yard stages (except Australia where there is longer distance facility with 1,400 yards plus, maybe even 1,500).

Decades before F/TR started these guys and girls decided first the early long-boattail 180gn Sierra MK was the way to go, subsequently shifting to 190 and 220gn MKs, later still 210s when they appeared and most likely the 215 or even 230gn Berger Hybrids now. Recommend 155s for 1,200 yards to these incredibly experienced and talented shooters and they'd cough politely before changing the subject.

https://nra.org.uk/learn-to-shoot/match-rifle/

Now, I know recommending 200/210/215s to the OP for his 1:12 twist is pointless given bullet stability issues - unless he only shoots at Raton in the summer, so the 185gn Berger becomes the near default choice and even it is recommended for a slightly faster twist in 'standard' sea level conditions. As others have said there are others in the same class out there too such as the new ELD-M in that weight bracket.

There is one other issue too - that is barrel length. As the OP has mentioned long distance F/TR, everybody has apparently assumed he has a rifle with a 30-32 inch barrel. Do you Chris? Many would-be F/TR competitors turn up with 26-inch barrel jobs and they barely manage at 1,000 never mind 1,200 yards with the reduced MVs. There are lots of other 'tricks' to making 308 perform at these distances such as very high-pressure loads in small primer Lapua 'Palma' brass or its US equivalents from Peterson Cartridge, Alpha (?) or whoever, but that is a very separate topic.

 

[onelastshot]

The limiting factor is you've got a 12 twist which is going to eliminate some of the heavier bullets. WHat you're looking for is the heaviest bullet your rifle will stabilize. I don't think your rifle is going to stabilize a 200 plus grain bullet. Part of the equation is picking the right powder. I've had great luck with RL 17 giving me 50-100 more fps I start with the 75gr Hornady V-Max, seated pretty far into the lands, pushed by 51 grains of Vihtavuori N160, working up to about 52 grains. N160 seems to be perfect for the case, yielding great velocity (about 3860 fps) and excellent accuracy. This gun is a 14-twist, and I normally shoot the 75gr V-Max. As far as I’m concerned, the 75gr V-Max is the best factory bullet you can shoot. It’s the most consistent, with a better BC than other brands in the same weight range. But to get a 75 to stabilize in a 14-twist, you have to really boot ’em out there fast–you need to smoke ’em out at 3750 fps or better. The faster you push a 75 the better it’s going to shoot.owders such as H 4350 which will help stabilize them.

 

[fyrewall]

My stubby barreled .308 12 twist, fueled with IMR 8208, fits my .30 caliber needs for target & hunting use up to 400 yards with 155's. For hunting I use improved expanding plastic tip bullets. With better computer produced Sg values (as per Miller) provided by plastic tips it should be OK for longer range target use with some heavier bullets. Should I be restricted to a .308, and have no bullet restrictions, I would get a real long barrel and faster twist and find the best bullet that would weigh more than 155 gains - but often what you have is what is used, like the OP's 1-12 twist.

 

[Laurie]

I've had great luck with RL 17 giving me 50-100 more fps I start with the 75gr Hornady V-Max, seated pretty far into the lands, pushed by 51 grains of Vihtavuori N160, working up to about 52 grains. N160 seems to be perfect for the case, yielding great velocity (about 3860 fps) and excellent accuracy. This gun is a 14-twist, and I normally shoot the 75gr V-Max. As far as I’m concerned, the 75gr V-Max is the best factory bullet you can shoot. It’s the most consistent, with a better BC than other brands in the same weight range. But to get a 75 to stabilize in a 14-twist, you have to really boot ’em out there fast–you need to smoke ’em out at 3750 fps or better.

What cartridge do you shoot? Maybe 243 Win? .......... but certainly not 308 Win which is what the OP is asking about. Whilst N160 is a great powder in 243 (say), it never sees use in 308 with any bullet weight - way too slow burning for this number.

3,860 fps too for the 308 F/TR competitor. People would KILL for that providing the barrel outlasted a single match.

 

[Zero333]

All good bullets, unfortunately the OP has asked about a 12 twist. Will those still stabilize? Just curious.

Damn... Thanks for the correction... I don't know why I was thinking 11" twist. For a 12" twist the 185's will work good.

 

[chrisj]

bbl is 30"
Thanks to all for your replies. again.... I have a 1/12" twist now so the heavies are out until I rebarrel.

 

[Laurie]

bbl is 30"

You'll manage fine then with the Juggernaut or some of its newer competitors, Chris.

To throw another couple of bullet suggestions in from the left field, the ancient 190gn Sierra MK is a very good long-range choice, much better than its paper ballistics (0.267 average G7, Litz) suggest, and it also performs very well through transonic zones and if required dropping through the sound barrier. Being a short OAL design for the weight 1:12 gives it an Sg of 1.44 at 2,800 fps under standard conditions (59 F at sea level) but if you shoot at a bit higher altitudes and in warmer air it'll have the full 1.5 for optimal stabilisation.

Also earlier today I watched an old Friend Adam Bagnall, a former UK F/TR national champion (twice if not three times) and still one of our top competitors in the discipline, dominate a 900 yard match in exceptionally difficult wind conditions shooting the 175gn Lapua Scenar-L. Despite a relatively low paper BC (0.247 average G7, Litz) this is another 308 bullet that appears to outperform its specification and it remains very stable to 1,000 yards and beyond. His elevation consistency with this bullet is awesome. It has an Sg of 1.42 at 2,900 in standard conditions, but if you shoot at 1,000 ft ASL or higher will also achieve 1.5.

 

[chrisj]

You'll manage fine then with the Juggernaut or some of its newer competitors, Chris.

To throw another couple of bullet suggestions in from the left field, the ancient 190gn Sierra MK is a very good long-range choice, much better than its paper ballistics (0.267 average G7, Litz) suggest, and it also performs very well through transonic zones and if required dropping through the sound barrier. Being a short OAL design for the weight 1:12 gives it an Sg of 1.44 at 2,800 fps under standard conditions (59 F at sea level) but if you shoot at a bit higher altitudes and in warmer air it'll have the full 1.5 for optimal stabilisation.

Also earlier today I watched an old Friend Adam Bagnall, a former UK F/TR national champion (twice if not three times) and still one of our top competitors in the discipline, dominate a 900 yard match in exceptionally difficult wind conditions shooting the 175gn Lapua Scenar-L. Despite a relatively low paper BC (0.247 average G7, Litz) this is another 308 bullet that appears to outperform its specification and it remains very stable to 1,000 yards and beyond. His elevation consistency with this bullet is awesome. It has an Sg of 1.42 at 2,900 in standard conditions, but if you shoot at 1,000 ft ASL or higher will also achieve 1.5.

Thanks very much Laurie. You are always a wealth of information !
Chris