What brushes to use?
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Leaddog
F-Class T/R
You'll certainly get a lot of answers to this.
I shoot F/TR .308 and have always used bronze brushes with good results. I also use Montana Extreme Copper Killer.
On a recent new build with a Hart barrel, I broke it in by shooting 3 shots, clean, 3 more, clean, 3 more, clean, done. The barrel now has about 1100 rds. and never coppers up as confirmed by a boroscope. I also stroke the barrel both ways with no ill effect to the crown. .
Enjoy.
I shoot F/TR .308 and have always used bronze brushes with good results. I also use Montana Extreme Copper Killer.
On a recent new build with a Hart barrel, I broke it in by shooting 3 shots, clean, 3 more, clean, 3 more, clean, done. The barrel now has about 1100 rds. and never coppers up as confirmed by a boroscope. I also stroke the barrel both ways with no ill effect to the crown. .
Enjoy.
I've always used bronze brushes to remove carbon / powder fouling then I patch out fouling with Shooter's Choice followed by 3 passes with a nylon brush saturated with Shooter's Choice, let stand for 15 minutes or so to remove cooper fouling then patch out dry. Finally step should be to patch out with your preferred lubricate to remove / neutralize any residual cooper solvent.
If you decide use bronze brushes try to use the ones with the brass cores. Also, make sure you rinse the brush immediately after use to neutralize the cooper solvent. I use 90% alcohol.
Always use a bore guide and be careful when withdrawing back to avoid damaging the crown - some shooter even remove the brush before drawing back through the barrel - I don't but I try to be very careful drawing the rod back to avoid damage to the crown.
If you decide use bronze brushes try to use the ones with the brass cores. Also, make sure you rinse the brush immediately after use to neutralize the cooper solvent. I use 90% alcohol.
Always use a bore guide and be careful when withdrawing back to avoid damaging the crown - some shooter even remove the brush before drawing back through the barrel - I don't but I try to be very careful drawing the rod back to avoid damage to the crown.
Leaddog
F-Class T/R
Cigarcop said:Charlie Watson said:
And I'd like to see it stay that way....shooting FTR that is!!
Hey Keith - That's funny. I'll be in Dasherland soon!! Got one coming in in 2 weeks. The other two this winter.
Shot Bridgeville practice today. It was a good time and that .308 did well.
Batten down the hatches this coming week and stay safe.
BigDMT
Nylon only. But nylon with standard cleaner won't remove carbon very well.
So I use "Remington 40x" cleaner with the nylon brush for carbon, then "pro shot " copper solvent for copper removal.
Neither of those cleaners have any odor because they are both ammonia free and still work better than anything else I've tried out there
These are the best cleaner choices when using nylon brushes. Gotta keep those bronze brushes out of your barrel
So I use "Remington 40x" cleaner with the nylon brush for carbon, then "pro shot " copper solvent for copper removal.
Neither of those cleaners have any odor because they are both ammonia free and still work better than anything else I've tried out there
These are the best cleaner choices when using nylon brushes. Gotta keep those bronze brushes out of your barrel
Forum Boss
Administrator
Different strokes for different folks -- and for different barrels with different powder/bullet combinations.
My best two barrels have never seen a brush. They get 3-4 soaking wet patches, and then Wipe-Out for 2-3 hours. Never, ever have had a carbon problem.
Other barrels, with sharper groves and less refined lapping jobs, receive minimal brushing with a nylon brush and patch-out, followed by Wipe-Out.
For the real foulers (bbls that need to be scrubbed hard to shoot well), I will use a good bronze brush soaking wet with solvent. After it leaves the muzzle, I remove the brush and flush it clean.
That said, lest others jump all over me, I fully acknowledge that some fantastic shooters have set records and won big matches after scrubbing the snot out of their barrels with two-way passes through the bore. But, if you look at the crown of some barrels cleaned this way with a 10X loupe you may find the edge of the crown (where the rifling ends) looks like sharks teeth.
I think we've seen a definite trend in the last five years towards less aggressive cleaning. I like most Sharp-Shoot-R products because they don't leave a heavy petroleum-based residue in the bore. Some people think such residues contribute to carbon issues. Since I don't experience stubborn carbon issues, I think they may be right... It also helps to clean before that carbon sets up hard inside your bore! I like to get those soaking wet patches in the bore minutes after I stop shooting for the day.
My best two barrels have never seen a brush. They get 3-4 soaking wet patches, and then Wipe-Out for 2-3 hours. Never, ever have had a carbon problem.
Other barrels, with sharper groves and less refined lapping jobs, receive minimal brushing with a nylon brush and patch-out, followed by Wipe-Out.
For the real foulers (bbls that need to be scrubbed hard to shoot well), I will use a good bronze brush soaking wet with solvent. After it leaves the muzzle, I remove the brush and flush it clean.
That said, lest others jump all over me, I fully acknowledge that some fantastic shooters have set records and won big matches after scrubbing the snot out of their barrels with two-way passes through the bore. But, if you look at the crown of some barrels cleaned this way with a 10X loupe you may find the edge of the crown (where the rifling ends) looks like sharks teeth.
I think we've seen a definite trend in the last five years towards less aggressive cleaning. I like most Sharp-Shoot-R products because they don't leave a heavy petroleum-based residue in the bore. Some people think such residues contribute to carbon issues. Since I don't experience stubborn carbon issues, I think they may be right... It also helps to clean before that carbon sets up hard inside your bore! I like to get those soaking wet patches in the bore minutes after I stop shooting for the day.
Leaddog
F-Class T/R
Forum Boss said:
I'd say that heat (or a cheap bore guide) is the culprit and not that of a bronze brush and a stainless barrel used with a bore guide like the Lucas.
I stroke both ways with a wet bronze brush using a Lucas bore guide and examine my crown regularly. No issues.
Bottom line..... Whatever works for you and makes you happy is the way to go.
BigDMT
I agree with forum boss about "wipe out ". Forgot to mention I use it regularly as well. An excellent cleaner to really get the last little hiding deposits of carbon and copper. I usually leave it in overnight or while at work. Just make sure your bore is very slightly tipped towards the muzzle when using it.
BigDMT
DennisH said:
No. Never have tried it yet. Heard it works well if you are in a hurry. But the regular wipe out alone works great for me.
I won't soley use wipe out when cleaning a rifle. But after going through my normal cleaning procedure with nylon brushes covered in rem 40x for carbon and patches soaked with pro shot for copper, I like to spray some wipe out in there.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
In short range benchrest, the reality is that with ten, five shot matches a day, plus sighters, and typically two days of shooting, cleaning during the day, at the range, with limited time, is pretty much a given. I have always used bronze brushes for these situations, and unlike a lot of fellows that speculate, I have looked at the interiors of all my barrels, many times, with a borescope. There was no evidence of scratching from brushing. I am a lot more concerned about careless, and excessive use of even the mildest abrasive than anything that a properly used bronze brush might do. If you don't shoot much, and you have all the time in the world to clean, there are a variety of approaches that can work, but I can tell you for sure that I know of more than one instance where someone read something in a magazine about not using brushes, and eventually found that he had a buildup that was hurting the accuracy of his barrel, Of course these fellows shoot a lot. I have used Wipeout, on varmint barrels that were cleaned at the end of the day, but even with these, a friend,who owns a bore scope found that he was starting to see some carbon accumulation happening over the course of several cleanings. The good news was that although taking our the Wipeout with patches did not remove everything, evidently what was left behind was made less stubborn, so that a few strokes with a bronze brush and some Butch's took care of the problem. Proper barrel care takes experience, and varies with the barrel, velocity, bullet length, rifling twist, pressure, jacket material, and what powder is used. It should be remembered that hard carbon and powder fouling have two very different cleaning requirements. Often in online discussions, this is a distinction that gets lost or ignored.
BoydAllen said:
Would you mind elaborating on this?
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Although they both are black, and may come from the same origin, hard carbon fouling is not touched by brushes or ordinary solvents, and may show a clean patch, after even extensive cleaning by ordinary means. Since it may be polished so that it is shiny, it may not be seen by looking down the barrel. A bore scope is needed to see what is really taking place. Powder fouling on the other hand, is removable by ordinary means. There are tricks to finding out if you have a carbon problem. If you start a tight patch up the bore, from the chamber, say a foot or so, and then slowly draw it back with just a couple of fingers on the rod, and it hangs up a little in the throat of the chamber, you may be a redneck ;-) I mean have carbon in the throat of your chamber. If, for some strange reason your throat length seems to have shortened rather than lengthened, you probably have a carbon problem. The trick is to get the carbon out damaging the barrel. I have played with Carb Out a little, and if you disregard the part about using a nylon brush, and use bronze, as well as using it after normal cleaning, letting it soak for a half hour, and repeating the whole thing a couple of times, it may work on carbon, but for the most stubborn deposits, something like IOSSO USED very carefully will probably be required. At this point you need to make sure that your cleaning rod guide is better than most, and that you remember that you are not cleaning a sewer pipe, while stroking the rod.
What products/tools are used for copper and carbon removal? Is there any preventative maintenance for each?
I read the article on the Home Page regarding "Barrel Cleaning Procedures" with great amusement. Even the experts can't agree. ???
However there are some common points (really common sense) that you can take away from this controversial article / subject like using a proper fitting bore guide and being careful to avoid damaging the crown if you draw the rod back through the barrel.
However there are some common points (really common sense) that you can take away from this controversial article / subject like using a proper fitting bore guide and being careful to avoid damaging the crown if you draw the rod back through the barrel.
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