What Barrel Contour/Weight For F-TR?

[yukonal]

On either one---.223 or .308, for a bolt action rifle?

How do you try to break down component weight?

Stock weight--
Barrel weight--
Action weight--(depending on action, I know)
Bi-Pod weight--

I have a .223 [and] a .308 project in the planning stages, and want to put my weight primarily in the barrel and still make weight. So, what is you goal weight (or contour) for the barrel, as a component, for a F-TR rifle?

 

[Hombre0321]

Your goal should be a "Balanced" system. You need it to track just as straight as is possible. Also don't forget one of the most important ( weight wise) components the scope.

You are going to need something of a constant, or known weight, to begin with. What action are you planning on using? What Stock? Scope? You will need to start somewhere before you can calculate your Barrel Profile thuis weight of the barrel.

I also like as heavy a barrel as I can get. But in the end it does need to track. Go with all barrel weight and a very lite stock and you "may" have a misbehaving child on your hands. It's all in the balance...

Roland

 

[Steve Blair]

Start with the action, stock, bipod and scope weights. Subtract that total from 18 pounds and that give you the barrel weight budget. The actual allowable weight is 18.18 but you don't want to crowd it too closely. Don't forget that scope bases and rings weigh something. A Panda F-Class action is an excellent choice to start. It is light, rigid and a proven performer. [br]
My current F-T/R rifle has a Manners T4a stock, Borden short action, Sightron 10-50, NF Ultralight rings, Murphy Precision stainless steel base, Duplin bipod and Krieger HV contour 30" barrel. Total weight is two ounces under max.

 

[fpskills]

Al,

If I were to go to the dark side and build a F-TR rifle I would start with a PR&T stock, then pick an action...( I love my Barnard but would it be too heavy, I don't know?). Bat, Stiller, Pierce etc.etc. Then I would put a 28"-30" medium or heavy Palma contour. I think that's what a lot of the guys are running and I think your at around 6 1/2-7 lbs for the barrel? After seeing a lot of different bipods out there I would put a Centershot under it. I think you could put the big BR Nightforce on there and be ok to finish it off. I don't know what the stock weighs but that would depend on the accessories also. As Hombre mentioned and as you know tracking is important and I would be sure this set up would track fine. All that being said I'm not one hundred percent on weight.

Adam

 

[XTR]

You can build just about anything with a 30" heavy Palma contour and be fine. Mine has a McM A5 stock that alone weighs over 4 lbs running steel badger rings and 30MOA rail, Badger M4 bottom metal and a NF 12-42, and a Sinclair v3 Bipod and I'm still close to a pound under the limit. That said my adjustable cheek is a Kydex saddle type and not an adjustable that adds 8 oz in hardware.


If you start running much longer than a 30 or heavier than a Heavy Palma then you are getting into the range of very close. The guy I went to Raton with needed to take one of his turret caps off of his Nightforce BR to make weight. He runs an adjustable PR&T stock with a Barnard action and I think a center shot pod, but Ray built his rifle to be at the limit, and it is.

 

[yukonal]

I don't have the exact weights, but maybe you guys have an idea. I'm thinking:

Tikka Action(or Bat, both about the same )-----.473 Boltface
NF 20 moa rail/NF Ultra Light Rings
McMillan A3 stock
Sinclair Bipod--But I don't know crap about what's out there, or what I really need
NF 12-42 BR scope

And that leaves the barrel.

Actually, I have all the components except the bipod, so I could weigh them (sort of), and see what's left. If anyone wants to reccomend a barrel/contour after seeing my list of components, please do. The barrel will be a .308. Probably 185 gr bullets, and up.

Contour...........?
Twist...............?
Length............?
Maker/groove Configuration...?

I'm open on bullet reccomendations, as I've been shooting .223. That would ultimately determine twist rate. Thanks for all the help. Please keep the ideas coming.

 

[yukonal]

You can build just about anything with a 30" heavy Palma contour and be fine. If you start running much longer than a 30 or heavier than a Heavy Palma then you are getting into the range of very close.

Sounds about right...and a good starting place. Thanks!

 

[fpskills]

How did I know you were thinkin tikka? :
Check out the Centershot or Duplin for bipods but now that sinclair fixed the vertical adjustment problem....
I'm not a .308 guy so I'll let someone else give advice on that.

 

[yukonal]

Thanks Adam, never even heard of them.


But, that aint sayin' much... ;D


Did I tell ya that Kreiger I ordered yesterday has a 7 month wait time?

 

[Hombre0321]

No need to really wait on a new Krieger Barrel unless you want to. I get my krieger barrels in about three days from Bruno's, they carry the most popular countors in stock almost all of the time.

Here are some weights for you all of these are Palma countours and that is a real good contour for a F/TR rifle. Also becuase it is a .308 I figured these at 32" long, so if you choose shorter they would weigh less.

Heavy Palma .308 = 6 1/2 lbs
Medium palma = 5.85 lbs
Light Palma = 5.63 lbs

Just to give you an idea, your barrel could differ from these figures some small amount.

Roland

 

[yukonal]

Thanks Roland! The Kreiger I ordered is a #5 Bull Sporter in .284. When I last called Bruno's they didn't have one.

I'm sure there's no way I can't make weight with a Heavy Palma. I'll get on Bruno's site and order one Monday. Can you give me a suggestion for twist rate...180 and UP?

 

[Laurie]

Can you give me a suggestion for twist rate...180 and UP?

1-12" handles everything up to the 190s i/c most VLDs but not Berger Hybrids heavier than the 168gn model. It also handles the Sierra 200gn MK. It's ideal for the 185gn Berger LRBT 'Juggernaut'. It's a good choice if you're primarily looking to use 155s, the modern Berger 168/175s while still retaining the option of using the Juggernaut and Berger / JLK 180/185/190VLDs assuming your chamber throat allows.

1-11" happily handles the 208gn Hornady plus the 210s from JLK, Berger and Sierra whether VLD or tangent ogive. It's about optimal for the 185gn Berger Hybrid and just a little slow for the 200gn Hybrid, but should be OK except in very low temperatures and high atmospheric pressure conditions.

1-10" is optimum for the 200gn and 215 gn Berger Hybrids and will stabilise the 230gn Hybrid except under very adverse conditions.

In practical terms, if you're going to specify a fairly long throat to suit 185s to 210s you might as well go for the 1-10" rate as it works well with everything including 155s and the theoretically over-fast bullet rotational speeds don't seem to have any real-life adverse effect on good quality modern match bullets. You (again theoretically) lose a little MV in spinning the bullet up that bit faster than in say in a 1-11", but it's difficult to pick that out from all the other random noise. All the barrelmakers produce this twist rate, have lots of experience in making it really well, and usually quote a short delivery time.

If you want to use the super-heavies, it's not just the rifling twist rate you need to consider - the throat has to be suitable too. So, if you want to optimise the rifle for the 210gn VLDs, and be able to handle the 215gn Hybrid, the resulting combination is pretty well limited to being fed heavy bullets. The 230gn Berger is such a long bullet, the rifle virtually needs to be set up to shoot it alone.

Some people get on really well with 200gn and up bullets, but others don't. Personally, I've rowed back to using 155s and the superb 168gn Berger Hybrid after a spell of chasing ever heavier models. If you go for a compromise chamber plus a 1-11 or 1-10" twist barrel, you can shoot the 155-175s, be optimised for the 185gn Juggernaut and the raft of modern 180-190gn high-BC bullets, and still try the 210s seated a bit on the deep side.

 

[XTR]

Just for giggles I just tossed the Savage F class that I have here on my scale, with my NF BR, rail and my Sinclair v3 and it weighs in at 17.8, and the Savage has an axle for a barrel, it's significantly heavier than the heavy Palma on my TR rifle.

I've been putzing with a new build for about 18 months now. Last yr I changed my mind on the barrel and decided to go with a 33 finished length. Back in Sept or October Krieger quoted me an April delivery. I also orderd a blank from Rock Creek, they wouldn't quote a delivery.

If you want a 30" barrel you can get them next week from a number of suppliers including Brunos and Bugholes but if you want a longer than 30" finish length you're probably not going to be shooting it in this yr's competition season unless you already have it on order.

 

[Steve Blair]

If you want a 30" barrel you can get them next week from a number of suppliers including Brunos and Bugholes but if you want a longer than 30" finish length you're probably not going to be shooting it in this yr's competition season unless you already have it on order.

[br]
Lester occasionally carries Krieger blanks longer than 31", like my favorite F-Open barrel, 7mm, 33", 9" twist. Also worth noting is that Brux is currently quoting 16 weeks and Bruno's will be carrying Brux barrels, soon.

 

[yukonal]

.If you want a 30" barrel you can get them next week from a number of suppliers including Brunos and Bugholes but if you want a longer than 30" finish length...

So the barrels that Brunos and Bugholes have in stock, that I would want are LONGER than 30, but will finish at 30"...or are 30", and will finish shorter?

I'm under the impression you guys are saying...get a Heavy Palma barrel that will [finish] at 30"...with a 1 in 10 twist. Does that sound about right? Again---thanks for the help and advice.

 

[Steve Blair]

A 10" twist will shoot any bullet weight well. I have a 26", 10" twist .308 with a Palma '95 chamber that shoots Berger 155.5 FULLBORE bullets very well. The real problem, as Laurie noted, is the freebore length. Light bullets are no problem but heavy bullets are. My .308 barrels chambered to shoot 230 Hybrids have a .280" freebore. That makes it a dedicated barrel. Pick a reasonable bullet weight range and chamber accordingly. Most folks shoot 185 grain bullets in F-T/R. They are easy to load, shoot well and don't have a lot of recoil. [br]
Your blank needs to be at least 1" longer than the intended finish length. You will see that many of Bruno's Krieger barrels are listed as 31". They usually measure ~31.25" and should finish at 30".

 

[XTR]

Typically a 31 inch blank finishes at 30. It's pretty standard that the smith has to remove about an inch to get to a good clean bore. I haven't looked at how bugholes lists them but on Bruno's they list the blank length, some places list the finish length. Another place to look is 3rd generation shooting supply.

 

[yukonal]

Thanks guys! That helps a bunch.