What Are My Choices in Co-Axial Rests?

[jhord]

I have the Fire Control and did the same stuff. I replaced the lock knob with something better from McMaster. "Bedded" the rack gear to the base, so on and so forth. It went from being decent, to pretty good. I wish it was shorter, because when you fit a regular BR bag to it, it's too tall. It's worked well enough for me at club level shooting, considering the price.

I did have a Caldwell firecontrol coaxial when it first came out. Quality wise, it was cheap, but not bad for plinking and hunting guns. I tore mine all apart, deburred and greased the internals to make it smoother. I still see guys using them with modified tops to accommodate 3" bags and shoot well with them.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

You can live without a coaxial, but why? Without a doubt it has been the best shooting investment next to good optics that I have made. I wouldn't want to shoot without my Farley, I love it! Call Farley, sometimes hes in a good mood and may work on the price a bit.

 

[bdale]

Snakepit. Yeah snakepit i think the shooter you are talking about is Chad Jenkins used a fire control to shoot something like a 1.4 agg in 600 yards another shooter that shoots at our club Light Gun agg. record using a coaxial :

 

[Phil3]

For shooting group I actually prefer a good windage top to a co-axial. Score shooting is another matter completely, this is where the co-axial really shines.

This really perplexes me, and not because I do not understand the difference between score and group. For me, I want to hit what I aim at, but also want a small a group as possible. Is everything in the 10 ring and on the X with a 1" group preferred over 1/2" group sitting out in the 8 ring? I want the 1/2" group on the X! May I ask if you feel the windage top is preferred for group, because the rifle may move around less after each shot, permitting it to be shot free recoil and needing less aiming? Again, I may be wrong, but I like aiming and don't want to just count on the rifle sliding back in the bags and needing little aiming after each shot. That may be all that is needed, but I want to be more actively involved in handling the rifle and hit what I am aiming at, AND achieve good groups. Unrealistic?

Phil

 

[rayjay]

When shooting with a rest that has separate windage and elevation knobs you could set the crosshair where you want the bullet to hit and if the windflags show a wind change you can wait it out and when you go back to the scope after your condition comes back the crosshairs will be right where you left them [ assuming you aren't laying all over the rifle ].

For CF score shooting matches the joystick makes a lot of sense and I use them myself [ I have owned a Shadetree, Farley Compact and an old style Seb ]. For CF group or RF BR matches or informal non-match shooting I like the W-E style of rest. A Randolph Machine is the nicest I have ever used.

To summarize, IMO if you ain't entering matches then a joystick doesn't make sense.

 

[Phil3]

I tried BR shooting as you described. It is not my cup of tea. It works, but didn't find it much fun. What my wants and needs are do not match well with that of the competitive BR shooter. The coaxial appealed to me because I don't mind at all aiming the gun a bit following a shot. I also put up several targets on the target board, hitting each with 5 shots. It is convenient to reaim the gun easily when moving from target to target. If I do the OCW testing process, the coaxial would be a big help.

There does not appear to be any middle of the road coaxial options. ShadeTree Engineering has a $375 coaxial top, and could perhaps fit that to a Hart Varmint base for $210. Or maybe the new Sinclair Heavy Varmint may come as base only. ??? Farleys and SEB NEOs are far beyond that the $585 cost of that combo.

Phil

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Put up a want ad, you should be able to get a used farley for about 750

 

[Outrider27]

The Sinclair Competition is 30+ lbs.! So much for ANY ease of carrying.

Phil

Hey Phil, the handle milled into the base of the Sinclair is actually quite comfortable. ;D

Yeah, it is a heavy sucker, but I usually only have to lug it out my basement door about 20 feet to the shooting bench - that makes a big difference....

Mike

 

[Phil3]

It is also $600 on sale, and while a good value I expect, still seems like massive overkill for an AR-15 or tactical style bolt action in factory action and barrel.

Phil

 

[ridgeway]

There is a Ransom rest in the classifieds that I listed for a buddy. Its a very high quality rest...not sure what his rock bottom price is though.

 

[Ringostar]

Phil, There are a lot of people not understanding what your looking for. I would watch the classifieds here closely, maybe put up a wanted to buy ad yourself. Or ask around at local clubs. There's many used rests sitting out there not getting used anymore. A Rock BR, Sinclair, or Bald Eagle should be very easy to find used. Shooters at my club post things all the time.

 

[snakepit]

I've used someone else's Fire Control and thought it was a piece of crap. I guess you can fix that somewhat but when you want to move up to a real rest potential buyers are gonna' look at it and see a used piece of crap.

Do I sense an attitude problem here? I guess someone else's Fire Control that you used did not meet your expectations but that does not necessary mean that the Fire Control is a piece of crap. Maybe it was was out of adjustment or you had not used it enough to familiarize yourself with it or maybe it was not fancy or expensive enough so it must be crap. In 2012 Chad Jenkins set a new IBS 4-Target Light Gun 600 yard Aggregate record which broke the record set by Sam Hall in 2011 and the Front Rest he used was a Caldwell Fire Control. As Chad said in the article written in the Accurate Shooter June 14th, 2012 Daily Bulletin, "the Caldwell isn't fancy, but it did the job. The record was set with an unmodified unit, just as it appears in the photo".

I realize that this is not the type of front rest that you normally see used at the higher levels of competition that you are probably use to but it may be a good first step in learning the basic techniques.
I have heard comments along the lines of your crap statement also used in reference to stock Savage 12 target rifles as compared to the more expensive custom ones. Last year at a match I saw a competitor with a Fire Control and a stock Savage 12 6BR F Class having a great time and even had a descent score.

 

[LHSmith]

My 2 cents.....I wish all competitors I face would use firecontol rests........spring loaded steel balls riding a white metal plate under tension....can you say "groovy"?.....an engineering marvel it aint.
To the OP......shot bags filled with sand would work for what you intend to do.

 

[snakepit]

My 2 cents.....I wish all competitors I face would use firecontol rests

I wonder if the competitors shooting against Chad Jenkins that day said the same thing.

 

[markr]

For shooting group I actually prefer a good windage top to a co-axial. Score shooting is another matter completely, this is where the co-axial really shines.

This really perplexes me, and not because I do not understand the difference between score and group. For me, I want to hit what I aim at, but also want a small a group as possible. Is everything in the 10 ring and on the X with a 1" group preferred over 1/2" group sitting out in the 8 ring? I want the 1/2" group on the X! May I ask if you feel the windage top is preferred for group, because the rifle may move around less after each shot, permitting it to be shot free recoil and needing less aiming? Again, I may be wrong, but I like aiming and don't want to just count on the rifle sliding back in the bags and needing little aiming after each shot. That may be all that is needed, but I want to be more actively involved in handling the rifle and hit what I am aiming at, AND achieve good groups. Unrealistic?

Phil

Obviously...................I was referring to a completely different type of group shooting than you are! I was referring to the "real" benchrest Where your group placed anywhere in the target counts the same, not F class or other group/score competitions!

 

[Phil3]

As I said, I am not interested in "real" benchrest. The F-Class setup looks good to me (minimal hardware, instant feedback on shots, going for score), but what does that look like off a bench. It seems to me that the bipod off a hard bench just doesn't work that well. Hopping, moving around, it IS annoying. De the F class guys use a squeeze bag technique to aim, or...?

Phil

 

[riverwolf1]

Here's a different view of the Caldwell rest! Yes there is a guy that won a 600 yard event, however the fact remains that this is an exception to the rests that are normally used in Benchrest be it short range or long range. 99% of competitors that have been in these diciplines unterstand that if they want to win on a regular basis then you need to shoot what the big dog's shoot. serious Benchrest shooters that spend anywhere from $3000.00 to $5000.00 to build a custom gun understand that putting a rest like the Caldwell rest under it is less than desirable due to its lack of precisely made parts! Every once in a while someone is going to show up with their Savage and a Caldwell rest and do well, it happens , but it does not happen with an regularity. In any sport including Benchrest you have to play the percentage's to win. If you can get get a copy of precision shooting for June 2013, theres a picture of the Grand Champion for 1000 yds Jerry Tierny, with his winning rifle and Rest and it ain't Caldwell its a Farley, and I have seen other pictures of 600 & 1000 yd firing lines and don't ever recall seeing a Caldwell on the line. Personally I would never invest my money in a product like the Caldwell stuff, but I have a neighbor that I am mentoring and he has one and I have shot off it, and I was not impressed, but it suits him well because he's not competing in matches that coast a fortune to go to these days. He is happy shooting a couple of VFS club matches, but if I spend $220.00 for a match entry fee pluss $600.00 in fuel plus hotel rooms and food I want to be dam sure that each and every piece of eqipment that I own is the very best, so that I ain't pissed on the way home that a piece of potmetal or plastic cracked on match #3 of day 1 and and all the money I spent was wasted!

 

[6BRAIman]

Fire Control works great for me. I think you have to take time to adjust it like you want it.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/06/profiles-in-accuracy-jenkins-sets-600-yard-agg-record-with-6br/

 

[snakepit]

Here's a different view of the Caldwell rest! Yes there is a guy that won a 600 yard event, however the fact remains that this is an exception to the rests that are normally used in Benchrest be it short range or long range. 99% of competitors that have been in these diciplines unterstand that if they want to win on a regular basis then you need to shoot what the big dog's shoot. serious Benchrest shooters that spend anywhere from $3000.00 to $5000.00 to build a custom gun understand that putting a rest like the Caldwell rest under it is less than desirable due to its lack of precisely made parts! Every once in a while someone is going to show up with their Savage and a Caldwell rest and do well, it happens , but it does not happen with an regularity. In any sport including Benchrest you have to play the percentage's to win. If you can get get a copy of precision shooting for June 2013, theres a picture of the Grand Champion for 1000 yds Jerry Tierny, with his winning rifle and Rest and it ain't Caldwell its a Farley, and I have seen other pictures of 600 & 1000 yd firing lines and don't ever recall seeing a Caldwell on the line. Personally I would never invest my money in a product like the Caldwell stuff, but I have a neighbor that I am mentoring and he has one and I have shot off it, and I was not impressed, but it suits him well because he's not competing in matches that coast a fortune to go to these days. He is happy shooting a couple of VFS club matches, but if I spend $220.00 for a match entry fee pluss $600.00 in fuel plus hotel rooms and food I want to be dam sure that each and every piece of eqipment that I own is the very best, so that I ain't pissed on the way home that a piece of potmetal or plastic cracked on match #3 of day 1 and and all the money I spent was wasted!

riverwolf 1: Believe it or not but I agree with your post and I think it was well written and I know that a win like Chad Jenkins had with a stock Fire Control is an exception to the norm. Accurate Shooter is a site that not only does the experienced competitor like yourself participate in but also the novice and new to the sport shooters come to for help. Often these new entry shooters ask questions that are designed to get them started at the entry or less experience level, they are looking for guidance and not to be put down. I guess when I see people come into the form with a attitude problem and answer other members questions about a piece of equipment or technique with a answer such as it is a "piece of crap" then I sometimes get defensive.

 

[riverwolf1]

Snakepit,
I agree that there are words that natuarally set the keyboard on fire, as I am occassionally quick to jump on someones unwisely chosen words so I know where your comming from.. I always think back to when I started and all the stuff that I purchased to participate in BR sports. When I point someone in a certain direction equipmentwise, I am solely interested in saving them time and money, therfore benefitting from mistakes like I made on intial purchase's. Phil certainly has alot of info to sort through because he's gotten alot of great response's. In the end though he will make the final decision. Even if he never fires a round in any registered match, the fact that he buys a quality rest will have a cumulitive effect on all of his load development and recreational shooting. If he choose wisely he will only make one purchase and I wish Phil the best of luck in his search for accuracy however he chooses to define it.