The 6 dasher is still very popular among F-open shooters but you see more and more records and championships held by a 7mm of sort. However the current(pending) 1K IBS record is 2.6872 for 10 shots, held by a dasher as well as the 600 yard IBS 5 shot record of .349, also held by a dasher. So I guess my question is why are so many F-open guys sticking to the 7mm's and the IBS guys sticking to there dashers? I get there are many differences in the sports, but they share a lot of similarities as well. I ask because currently I run a plane Jane 6BR for F-open and I am considering building a 284 win/shehane as a dedicated LR gun and leave the 6BR as a mid range gun. But with all the hype with a dasher, I could just re-chamber my 6BR and form some brass. What are the pro's and con's of each?
What am I missing?
- Thread starter Cody Richardson
- Start date
There is really a very simple answer to your question. I have BOTH a 7 Shehane (my 2nd one) and 2 Dashers. WITHOUT a doubt, under ideal conditions, a 6 Dasher WILL shoot tighter groups at ALL ranges than a .284 or it's siblings. The KEY to that statement is "under ideal conditions".. In BenchRest shooting you find a wind condition, shoot some sighters and then as fast as you can, put the lead down range to maintain that condition>>if possible. F-Open, contrariwise, is find a wind condition, shoot some sighters (many times ONLY 2 depending on the way it is set up with rules for that range) then shoot, W-A-I-T for a puller to pull the target into the pits, mark, paste, score and send back up. Normally, you would have sent ALL 5 of your shots to your target in BR about the same time, ours comes up after 1 shot! Ergo, the "problem" of constantly changing wind conditions over the course of fire, in the case of 1000 yards about 30 minutes! How many times has the wind changed in those 30 minutes?
With BR you are dealing with a VERY short time frame as opposed to F-Open. So, you NEED accuracy, however, you also NEED the ability to "cheat the wind" as much as can be possible, to keep those shots in the 10 ring. Picture this in your mind's eye: A right to left wind at say a nominal 8 m.p.h. (full value, i.e. completely perpendicular) and you need to hold over to the #8 on the right side of the target. You pull the trigger and low and behold you get an "X". So you now keep shooting there. BUT what if the winds increase a bit, say to 12 M.P.H. You may NEVER notice the increase BUT your bullet may be blown into the 9 ring on the left side (9 o'clock side) of the target. With a 180Gr 7mm bullet you PROBABLY will clip the edge of the 10 ring and still maintain a "clean". NOT SO with a 105gr 6mm bullet. You WILL go into the 9 ring! ADDITIONALLY, lets say the conditions are the same and you are pounding away at the 10 / "X" ring BUT you have a let-off of say 3m.p.h. and you did not notice that OR it came up so fast you did not have time to adjust. Now if you had the 7mm bullet, you will probably clip the inside of the 10 ring at the 3'oclock position BUT with the Dasher, you will land in the 9 ring. T-Rust me, NOBODY can read the winds so good that they can pick up on everything! If they could, they would ALL be shooting Dashers!
I hope this clarifies what you were seeking an answer to..
With BR you are dealing with a VERY short time frame as opposed to F-Open. So, you NEED accuracy, however, you also NEED the ability to "cheat the wind" as much as can be possible, to keep those shots in the 10 ring. Picture this in your mind's eye: A right to left wind at say a nominal 8 m.p.h. (full value, i.e. completely perpendicular) and you need to hold over to the #8 on the right side of the target. You pull the trigger and low and behold you get an "X". So you now keep shooting there. BUT what if the winds increase a bit, say to 12 M.P.H. You may NEVER notice the increase BUT your bullet may be blown into the 9 ring on the left side (9 o'clock side) of the target. With a 180Gr 7mm bullet you PROBABLY will clip the edge of the 10 ring and still maintain a "clean". NOT SO with a 105gr 6mm bullet. You WILL go into the 9 ring! ADDITIONALLY, lets say the conditions are the same and you are pounding away at the 10 / "X" ring BUT you have a let-off of say 3m.p.h. and you did not notice that OR it came up so fast you did not have time to adjust. Now if you had the 7mm bullet, you will probably clip the inside of the 10 ring at the 3'oclock position BUT with the Dasher, you will land in the 9 ring. T-Rust me, NOBODY can read the winds so good that they can pick up on everything! If they could, they would ALL be shooting Dashers!
I hope this clarifies what you were seeking an answer to..
7mms are a trade off - recoil, ballistics and precision. In each of those areas there is a calibre that meets the competition rules and is better, but the nature of the game over a multi day agg means the best balance wins - ala 7mm. The same compromise appears in FTR with heavy bullets - but not too heavy!
FWIW I'm not a fan of multi calibres during a comp - I'm a strong believer in having one rifle and getting to know it real well. This possibly depends on the range a little but the slight differences in ballistics can make a difference when you have wind shifts and your having to make a value call and go.
You also get to know really well how the barrel performs - what likes for cleaning - how many shots to settle down etc etc etc. Probably not so important for 1-2 day matches but definitely helps for longer matches. I've seen a lot of guys have a shot go high and adjust and the next shot drops out (now 2 points down) - they just needed to leave it as they would have known the high shot was out of the group for the rifle. The list can go on - a lot of those who win in tight matches have a good rifle but make good decisions...this bit is a lot easier when you know something inside out.
FWIW I'm not a fan of multi calibres during a comp - I'm a strong believer in having one rifle and getting to know it real well. This possibly depends on the range a little but the slight differences in ballistics can make a difference when you have wind shifts and your having to make a value call and go.
You also get to know really well how the barrel performs - what likes for cleaning - how many shots to settle down etc etc etc. Probably not so important for 1-2 day matches but definitely helps for longer matches. I've seen a lot of guys have a shot go high and adjust and the next shot drops out (now 2 points down) - they just needed to leave it as they would have known the high shot was out of the group for the rifle. The list can go on - a lot of those who win in tight matches have a good rifle but make good decisions...this bit is a lot easier when you know something inside out.
Ben, your answer should be posted as a sticky. You just answered most every question new shooters to the 1000 yard f-class game need to make an informed decision.
I most always shoot a Dasher at 600 and 1000 yard IBS matches, pick a condition and run'em as fast as I can. Yesterday won a small 1000 yard IBS club match with a 7rsaum. 10 to 15mph switchy tail wind at times was hard on the Dashers. I have shot a Dasher at 600 yard f-class and had great success, but at 1000 always shoot either the 284 or a 7 rsaum. A good friend and great shooter tried to shoot a great shooting Dasher rig at a 1000 yard f-class event with just moderate conditions and went away just shaking his head.
If fun is your goal, a 6mm Dasher is hard to beat at most any long range game. If you want to get to or stay at a higher level at 1000 yards in f-class you need to be shooting a 7mm of some variety.
Steve
I most always shoot a Dasher at 600 and 1000 yard IBS matches, pick a condition and run'em as fast as I can. Yesterday won a small 1000 yard IBS club match with a 7rsaum. 10 to 15mph switchy tail wind at times was hard on the Dashers. I have shot a Dasher at 600 yard f-class and had great success, but at 1000 always shoot either the 284 or a 7 rsaum. A good friend and great shooter tried to shoot a great shooting Dasher rig at a 1000 yard f-class event with just moderate conditions and went away just shaking his head.
If fun is your goal, a 6mm Dasher is hard to beat at most any long range game. If you want to get to or stay at a higher level at 1000 yards in f-class you need to be shooting a 7mm of some variety.
Steve
May have misspoken as I now see that this is not a IBS match. But here is the bulletin from the 1k group. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/04/best-10-shot-1000-yard-group-in-history-be-amazed/
I assumed that the time in conditions was going to be the factor that made the 7mm superior to the dasher. I'm fairly certain I'll have a 284 win/shehane as my next open gun. My BR is great for midrange and calm/constant long range days but I'm losing points left and right(pun intended) to the big 7mm's in the wind.
I assumed that the time in conditions was going to be the factor that made the 7mm superior to the dasher. I'm fairly certain I'll have a 284 win/shehane as my next open gun. My BR is great for midrange and calm/constant long range days but I'm losing points left and right(pun intended) to the big 7mm's in the wind.
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