What am I doing wrong

[Doom]

Well, OCW doesn't require a chronograph and including it in the mix may be confusing you. If you are shooting 3 or 5 shots and making decisions based on chronograph data you would probably have more success going to Vegas and picking a game.

OCW identifies a load where the barrel harmonics and rifle system create a repeatable point of impact for a given power charge ( a node if you wish to call it that). It is not overly sensitive to velocity but appears to be more related to barrel time. The chronograph measures velocity. Its results are dependent on sampling and the velocity is subject to random noise (velocity) variations in the loading process and component variation. Standard deviation is not a velocity measurement but is a statistical analysis of the variation in the velocity data. To have meaningful results it requires a significant amount of data if you wish to compare one load's standard deviation versus another. As for extreme spread it is not variable that has any significance. We tend to use it, but its use is anecdotal.

The first thing you should do when searching for an accurate load is choose quality components, ie case and bullet, then choose a powder of an appropriate speed that will give you >90% case fill and near 100% burnout in the barrel.

 

[Pres100]

Lot's of great great advice already on consistency controls.

Just out of curiosity, how many rounds in the sample size? Are we talking 5 rounds? 10, 20, 50? the meaningfulness of the spread and deviation from the average is pretty dependent on the sample size.

 

[K22]

What you are doing wrong?
My guess is if this is for short range you are worrying about chrono numbers and not concentrating on results on target which is the ultimate goal (for me at least).

Me too! After all isn't that the point?

 

[Webster]

I don’t wanna sound argumentative, but you don’t need any more scale than that to get respectable numbers. If you’re trying to win at Deep Creek, buy the best, but if not…. Use good brass and throughly test your charge weights. ES of 25 for anything but BR is plenty good so long as the gun shoots well.

For what it’s worth, I bought an autotrickler years ago and sold it within 2 weeks. It made absolutely no difference for me. A node is a node.

If anything, I might hunt down a Scott Parker tuned balance beam scale at some point, just in case I’m ever in doubt.

If you can shoot small groups at 100 yards they are still going to be small at 200 & 300 yards no matter what the ES is. If it's a varmint hunting rifle or casual BR don't worry about the ES if the groups are small. Most of my improvement was learning better bench skills and finding a bullet my barrel liked. Most factory barrels will never shoot real small no matter what you do. I have a Kreiger barrel chambered by Kelbly.

 

[BeefyT11]

I’m having a hard time getting my ES below 25. Single digits would be nice but 15 or below is fine. I’m not shooting benchrest. I use the OCW method for finding my load, while shooting over a chronograph. Generally try to stay at .002-.003 neck tension.

My process
Decap
AMP anneal
Lube hornady one shot
Fl size with Redding type S bushing
Trim, debur, chamfer (as needed, not everytime).
Prime rcbs bench primer
Powder charge RCBS 1500. I have noticed some drift on the scale .1 in both directions.
Seat bullet
Check runout.

In my opinion, your process is solid. I'm a believer in erik cortinas method. He achieved high master with a chargemaster. Your scale may not be the problem, as others have suggested. But the cartridge is relative. If your cartridge is a 223 or below (powder column) don't worry, it's semi irrelevant. But, anything above (cartridge wise) es/sd starts to become a bigger deal. Continue with the process, but consider doing a dedicated powder test. Your "problem" indicates an issue with ignition or seating depth or both. Focus on one aspect at a time and start to eliminate variables. I started as a believer in the OCW method. But found to it being very rough in nature and non conclusive when trying to nail down a consistent load

 

[searcher]

When you get high ES, it is because something is not consistent. The problem with the Chargemaster and many other scales is they only read to 1/10th, so very important to trickle from a weight below your charge weight, say start at 22.1 for a trickle up to 22.2 - and STOP. If you are doing that, your scale will get you where you want to be (at least my Chargemaster and others do). The second big thing (if not biggest) is neck uniformity. The more tension you put on them, the higher the ES spread will be as a rule, particularly if the necks aren't turned. If not turned, you might think you are putting .003" of tension on all of them - but in reality, you are not. The thinner necks get less tension, and the thicker necks get more, etc. Get a neck turner and you will be glad you did. Also be sure the bullet you are using is short enough to not reach the base of the neck where the "doughnut" forms in the brass after several firings (if you can). While I realize you don't do benchrest and such - I'd suggest you still do some of these techniques to get you where you want to go. If you are averse to buying new tools (like the neck turner, primer pocket cutter or flash hole reamer, for example), you can still get mild improvement simply by weighing your cases and segregating them into two or more lots and weighing your bullets and likewise segregating them into lots within 2/10th grain. Same for your brass, especially if you are not using a premium brass like Lapua (though I still weigh them as well). If I could pick the top four things that I think will get your ES in line, uniform necks, carefully weigh charges and weigh your bullets and brass. If you are using "run of the mill" brass like Remington, Winchester or such, I'd add cutting the primer pockets and checking the flash holes. The idea is to get each load as close to the same as you can, and these are ways you can do it. If you are willing to spend some money - think about eventually getting an annealing machine. If you do these things and still having an issue, change your powder or the amount of the powder (lower charges usually produce higher ES in my experience). Good luck!

 

[Webster]

I’m having a hard time getting my ES below 25. Single digits would be nice but 15 or below is fine. I’m not shooting benchrest. I use the OCW method for finding my load, while shooting over a chronograph. Generally try to stay at .002-.003 neck tension.

My process
Decap
AMP anneal
Lube hornady one shot
Fl size with Redding type S bushing
Trim, debur, chamfer (as needed, not everytime).
Prime rcbs bench primer
Powder charge RCBS 1500. I have noticed some drift on the scale .1 in both directions.
Seat bullet
Check runout.

What do you use the rifle for. What's the caliber?

 

[JEFFPPC]

You have to have accurate powder weights to the kernel, if possible and brass sorted to internal volume.

I disagree with internal volume. I have sorted cases and found no gain. Currently I shoot 3 bench rifles. A 6PPC, a 30br and a 6 brx. All had ES in the high teens when I started paying attention to it. They now are all single digit. No case sorting. The past several years I have been seating with a force gauge. Although I learned a few things I did not see an increase in accuracy. I quite doing it this year and have been doing fine . Not quite ready to throw it to the curb but getting close.

 

[joshb]

I disagree with internal volume. I have sorted cases and found no gain. Currently I shoot 3 bench rifles. A 6PPC, a 30br and a 6 brx. All had ES in the high teens when I started paying attention to it. They now are all single digit. No case sorting. The past several years I have been seating with a force gauge. Although I learned a few things I did not see an increase in accuracy. I quite doing it this year and have been doing fine . Not quite ready to throw it to the curb but getting close.

Yeah, I rushed my answer due to my wife’s call.
I don’t sort Lapua. I will sort Federal, Lake City, etc. to get 50 or 100 “good ones” out of a pile.
The OP didn’t mention his brass, gun, chambering, etc.

 

[Enosiophobia]

you need a MUCH better powder measure. If you cant afford an expensive .02 difference scale, then you have to have a sharp are with the balance beam. I used the RCBS for years, wondering the same as you. But what showed up as 43.0 gr Varget on the RCBS varied by +/- half grain or more.
Throw ten loads then go back and beam scale each one .
MAybe

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Or find a friend with a really accurate scale and weight those ten, maybe 20 rounds? Youll KNOW why your ES is so far off with the standard auto throw powder dispensers.

I finally bit the bullet and got the V4 scale https://autotrickler.com/pages/autotrickler-v4

I use a similar model scale from this company. Dial 1g low on my Chargemaster Lite and tune on the triple digit scale. I also stopped ultrasonic cleaning my cases after sizing so there's a slight amount of lube left in the necks. Very much improved.

 

[Zero333]

Like others mentioned... I don't take SD/ES seriously until it's with at least 10 rounds.

It's very common for my loads to have 5 or less ES from a 5 shot group... But once I shoot the next 5 shots the ES turns to 10+.

My rule of thumb is..
10 shots ES below 20 fps is good and SD in single digits with the same 10 shot groups. And it has to be repeated time and time again.

So a recap..

10 Shots over the chronograph with ES below 20 and ES in single digits that's always repeatable and consistent is good enough for me.

So many times I can't even count I seen my ES to be 1 or 2 fps with a 5 shot groups it's laughable.

 

[Zero333]

Forgot to add..
A fellow at the range wanted to know his velocity from his Savage Axis II 223rem with 53 v-max and Benchmark powder he handloaded.

I shot 10 of his handloads over the chorno at a 300 meter (328 yard) target. ALL 10 shots went into a 1" group at 300m (just under 1/3 rd MOA)... event tho his ES according to my chronograph was over 100 fps !!!

 

[Webster]

I’m having a hard time getting my ES below 25. Single digits would be nice but 15 or below is fine. I’m not shooting benchrest. I use the OCW method for finding my load, while shooting over a chronograph. Generally try to stay at .002-.003 neck tension.

My process
Decap
AMP anneal
Lube hornady one shot
Fl size with Redding type S bushing
Trim, debur, chamfer (as needed, not everytime).
Prime rcbs bench primer
Powder charge RCBS 1500. I have noticed some drift on the scale .1 in both directions.
Seat bullet
Check runout.

Speedy Gonzales video talks about trouble shooting the firing pin shroud to get more consistant powder ignition. My rifles are good enough as is for varmint hunting, but I think it's an important area too know what to look for and improve. The shroud on my Rem 700 action shows a lot of scuffing on the part that extends outside the shroud when the rifle is cocked. I think a lot of us would like to see some good quality pictures of problem areas in the bolt and shroud.

 

[big5ifty]

Try neck tension to lower ES.

Run a test with incremental increases in neck tension .

addendum :

I forgot to mention that certain combinations of powder and primer type don't give low enough ES, no matter what you do.

The important point to understand is that not every combination of powder and primer can be made to shoot optimally, and also that not every low ES gives the best results on the target.

 

[JFrank]

There is always a possibility of chronograph error, I test everything from top to bottom, load charges to the kernel and still get weird chronograph numbers. I rely on the target to provide the best data.

 

[Minshooter]

How does the load shoot on target?

The single most important question, and the only answer that matters.

May be a slightly simplistic answer, but formed by over a half century of doing all the other listed things.