Weighing and measuring rim thickness on 22lr

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lee, I had one of these. I tried separating by OAL (ogive really). When I was done I went to the range. I shot about 4 shots of the middle range and then shot both extremes, short and long into that same group. All went into the same group. Did it several times, same results. I sold the gizmo.

Best to you,
John H. you know who.

Well John, shooting the high-end stuff that you do doesn't surprise me of the results you got, but I am wondering how wide of a spread were the sorted groups less than 0.015 then results would be very close at least that is what I seen.
sorting this way has weeded out those rounds that were way out there and from what I seen are the ones that produce those WTH shoots! they either dropped out or went out the top.

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

There is simply no practical substitute for buying better ammo, everything else has been tried before.

I agree but where do you find those lots that are exceptional? I been waiting 7 months for an appointment at Lapua and was just told it will be at least another month.
sorting has kept me shooting matches with blind bought ammo 2100 agg for last year shooting ARA my best year and shooting sorted ammo.

Lee

 

[John1945]

Well John, shooting the high-end stuff that you do doesn't surprise me of the results you got, but I am wondering how wide of a spread were the sorted groups less than 0.015 then results would be very close at least that is what I seen.
sorting this way has weeded out those rounds that were way out there and from what I seen are the ones that produce those WTH shoots! they either dropped out or went out the top.

Lee

Funny, high end stuff . Lee, I don't remember the spread but I was surprised at it when I did it to the point I really expected to see shot differences.

John

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Funny, high end stuff . Lee, I don't remember the spread but I was surprised at it when I did it to the point I really expected to see shot differences.

John

Funny, high end stuff . Lee, I don't remember the spread but I was surprised at it when I did it to the point I really expected to see shot differences.

John

Thought that make get a laugh out of you. I been surviving shooting CX and Pistol king oh I hope to find some Midas+ at Mesa.
well, you tried it and came to the conclusion it isn't worth the effort, but at least you tried!

Lee

 

[foxguy]

A OAL Guage to match the chamber of your rifle.
I'm thinking a 22LR Barrel Stub with your Chambers Match Reamer ran in short so the Case will only go into the stub appx .075 and then measure the cartridge's OAL.

What's your thoughts?
Possibly a stub/ 22LR match reamer chamber to work with the Hollands Comparator.

How much variation is being found with Eley Match ammo? Lapua Center-X ?, Midas?

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

A OAL Guage to match the chamber of your rifle.
I'm thinking a 22LR Barrel Stub with your Chambers Match Reamer ran in short so the Case will only go into the stub appx .075 and then measure the cartridge's OAL.

What's your thoughts?
Possibly a stub/ 22LR match reamer chamber to work with the Hollands Comparator.

How much variation is being found with Eley Match ammo? Lapua Center-X ?, Midas?

The critical part is the piece that will contact the bullet. as far as CX & Midas+ or any Lapua product I have seen in good lots of spreads of less than 0.020 with only 0.005 between different groups as they are sorted.
I don't shoot Eley so I don't know how much variation there might be.

Just so everyone understands sorting this way won't make a lot shoot better than it can what it will do is make it more consistent. it will weed out the overly long or short rounds that I have found causes those shots that will just go out unpredictably from POA I believe they are called flyers!

Lee

 

[Fuj]

Proving something to yourself does nothing towards proving it to the rest of the world, unless you have data it becomes an opinion.

Proving things to yourself is everything when competing. Don't really
care about the rest of the world. I have nothing to prove to them. As for
data ?? I file all my targets with the conditions at the time, and lot numbers.
Data only means that particular point in time, and the rifles used. That data
is completly worthless to the rest of the world......i generally have the grandson
shooting the sorted Wolf, for practice. It's cheap by the case at SGammo. It
puts a smile on my face when I turn him loose on the RWS or Eley. Going to
get the grand daughter going this summer. Get that Sibling rivalry going.

 

[VLNBYR]

Opinions can be extremely powerful, even overrule logic, data, and science.

 

[doclu60]

I have never sorted rim thickness, although a friend gave me one of the tools used for such. I sold it. I have weight sorted, and it made no difference at all. I do have one of the tools Lee is using (also given to me) and did a small batch of two different lots of Eley Match. I did not go to the length Lee does, I simply sorted into 3 different lengths. I did not write the lengths on the boxes, I just color coded the boxes. Low and behold, different lengths shot very different out of two different rifles, both with Muller barrels with Stiller chambers. So, do I think there is some merit to length sorting? Yes, but when I do it again, I will be more precise in my procedure.

Scott

 

[Fuj]

I have never sorted rim thickness, although a friend gave me one of the tools used for such. I sold it. I have weight sorted, and it made no difference at all. I do have one of the tools Lee is using (also given to me) and did a small batch of two different lots of Eley Match. I did not go to the length Lee does, I simply sorted into 3 different lengths. I did not write the lengths on the boxes, I just color coded the boxes. Low and behold, different lengths shot very different out of two different rifles, both with Muller barrels with Stiller chambers. So, do I think there is some merit to length sorting? Yes, but when I do it again, I will be more precise in my procedure.

Scott

That Hollands I use would be perfect to check lengths, Just have to see
if one of the dies will work, or jump on the lathe and turn a few more.
It would be simple to have the kids do it right there at the bench prior
to going to target.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I'm going to ask my gs friend if he can make a gauge for me.

 

[dellet]

I’ll start saying without a doubt, sorting can work.

Honestly, no one can tell you if it works. You have to try for yourself. Set your own standard of success. Do you hope to shrink group size by 10%, eliminate a single flyer per box, keep all shots on a 1” swinger at 50 yards using bargin in a bucket ammo.

The rifle comes into play just as much as the ammo used. But keep a couple things in mind. You’re not likely to go to the Lapua test center, buy a brick of the best lot for your rifle, and a pallet of the worst, then sort through worst and get more than a box that shoots as good as the lot that tested the best.

I have spent a lot of time sorting 22 shorts, simply because match ammo is not made any more. Using CCI Target, I was able to reduce group size to about 40% of non sorted of the same case of ammo. 5” groups down to under 2” at 50 yards with iron sights. Any thing can help an 29 grain bullet at 700 fps is appreciated.
Armed with that confidence, I sorted some Lapua Biathlon X for another rifle. Complete waste of time.

While you’re weighing, measuring rims and engraved depth, don’t forget concentricity. If you’re really bold you might try annealing necks.

Something that’s free to try, is save your brass from batches you’ve sorted. Clean it after shooting then weigh it again. Does it still fall within your plus/minus window of sorted ammo?

Again, sorting can work, set reasonable expectations based on the ammo you’re working with. The question boils down to Are your tools, skills, and attention to detail better than the factory that produced the ammo? You’ve just hired on as the quality control department.

 

[foxguy]

Measurements are just at the Ogive. I use a MKII gauge unfortunately it is no longer being made.

Lee

Lee, do you know the bore Opening diameter of the gauge that you are using.
I wish that that gauge was still being Made.

 

[VLNBYR]

If you want to go fast then start with a fast car. Making a slow car go fast takes a lot more time. energy, and money.

 

[Straightshooter1]

If you want to go fast then start with a fast car. Making a slow car go fast takes a lot more time. energy, and money.

But I find it's a lot of fun making something slow go fast.



Now I'm working on my .308.

 

[TRSR8]

I agree but where do you find those lots that are exceptional? I been waiting 7 months for an appointment at Lapua and was just told it will be at least another month.
sorting has kept me shooting matches with blind bought ammo 2100 agg for last year shooting ARA my best year and shooting sorted ammo.

Lee

Test center times have been problematic.
I still have center ammo and have bought blind 2-3 times as well and have been generally satisfied with that ammo with decent scores.
Blind buying is now an unfortunate fact of life. The upside, if not happy it’s an easy sale.
Even with center testing, last time, I had 2 guns, 15 lots, but with lead times and the increasing likelihood of fewer lots come test time, frankly If I got a time and found out I’m facing only 5-6 lots of Midas, I’d probably pass.

 

[TRSR8]

A OAL Guage to match the chamber of your rifle.
I'm thinking a 22LR Barrel Stub with your Chambers Match Reamer ran in short so the Case will only go into the stub appx .075 and then measure the cartridge's OAL.

What's your thoughts?
Possibly a stub/ 22LR match reamer chamber to work with the Hollands Comparator.

How much variation is being found with Eley Match ammo? Lapua Center-X ?, Midas?

OAL within a lot is a waste. OAL between lots can be useful based on you chamber and particular barrel configuration.
When I did a fair amount of testing, ELEY could vary between lots .010”. Based on my setups zero performance difference with good lots.
Lapua seems less….don’t bother any more.
If you have little/no engraving, or full engraving with, say, an MI barrel, could be more useful.
Again, given the nature of this thread, this with custom RFBR equipment shooting match ammo.