Weak bench top? Something else? Both?

[Teufelhunden]

I started reloading metallic cartridges (.223) for the first time a year ago using a LEE Hand Press and FL die. I lurked this site and learned most of what I know up to this point from you guys. Thank you, it's been fun so far.

So I decided I like it enough to upgrade and I'm starting to reload for .260Rem after morphing one of my Savage 12's from .223 to the .260 using a Shilen prefit barrel. I purchased a new LEE bench mount press, Redding Body Die, Lee Collet Die, and Forster Benchrest Die.

BTW, I ordered a few boxes of CORBON loaded Lapua 139Scenar rounds to get started shooting right away, and as a source for Lapua brass. This stuff appears to be shooting extremely well for factory munitions. My only hope is that I can improve upon it even if just a little.

The bench I am using has a 3/4" medium density fiberboard top. When I tried sizing a case with the body die, it stopped short of full insertion by 0.010-0.020" before the bench top flexed to it's limit. It's got about 2 1/2" overhang on the corner where the press is mounted, and if I force the press handle down much more the bench top is going to break.

So, if my suspicion holds true I will need to add strength to the bench, but I wanted to ask if there is the possibility that something else is going on.

The sudden halt in case insertion felt odd. I had adjusted the die to touch the shell holder with ram full up, then screwed the die in 1 full turn. After pulling the case I measured the base to shoulder with a Sinclair Comparator and bump Gauge Insert on digital calipers. The length GREW on the once fired Lapua case by 0.003". Is this what happens to the case while sizing, but before the shoulder is bumped back?

I don't have great measuring tools, but it appears the case body is being sized ~0.004" in diameter at the shoulder just before it breaks over, and 0.002-0.003 at a few points along the rest of the case. That's with the ram stopping a few hairs short of bottoming out. Is the sudden increase in press handle resistance due to the body die coming into contact with the shoulder? Is this normal enough that a beefier bench will allow me to follow through and bump the shoulder back 0.002"? Are these numbers acceptable so far?

Loading the .223 with hand press was basically like trying to pop a football between your hands with one violent motion. This is different.

I'm assuming I need to use a thicker chunk of real wood for the bench top. What do you guys recommend?

 

[BoydAllen]

Make sure that your decapping stem is not set too low, so that the end of the expander is hitting the inside of the case head. As far as making your bench stronger goes. There are several methods that will work. One way, if it is feasible with your design, is to overlay the top with two layers of 3/4" plywood, glued and screwed from the underside.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

When I first started reloading, I sometimes used quite a bit of force to resize cases. As I progressed and got the hang of lubing the cases inside the necks and outside on the body, the amount of force required has reduced dramatically.

Although a stronger bench is a good thing, I would look to your lubing approach first.

Good luck. JCS

 

[guidom]

i doubled two 5/8" plywood together. also have a 2 1/2" overhang. i used a 2 1/2' angle iron to stiffen it. works great.

 

[M-61]

This is my 5th bench over the years and homes. I like doubled 3/4" plywood glued and screwed an a 2x4 frame.I don't care for a overhang
and that may require on some presses to drill through the ply and the 2x4. Threaded rod with washers and nuts secure that. The rear hole(s) on the press take the main load. Drill through the ply and place a pipe across two of the 2x4's underneath. Run the threaded rod through the press, ply, and the drilled pipe. It stresses the load over TWO 2x4's and not just the plywood. It's all probably over kill but it sure is solid.

 

[Shynloco]

.
there is the possibility that something else is going on.

The sudden halt in case insertion felt odd. I had adjusted the die to touch the shell holder with ram full up, then screwed the die in 1 full turn.

IMHO, the fact that your turning your die to touch the shell holder and then adding another turn is the problem. I screw in my dies to contact the shellholder and then SCREW in the die 1/2 turn for starters. It is from this position that I start the shoulder bumping to whatever number the shoulders after firing move to. And make sure you have lubricated the casing sufficiently at the lower portions near the base.

And Boyd is right about curring your bench give issue. Personally I'd be using a steel plate or go find yourself a solid core door and add that baby atop of what you have. That's what I use and have no issues of "Bench give" even with 300 SUM for either of the presses I use. Hope that helps some.

 

[CJ6]

I run a 2 x 10 under the entire front lip and also as a back plate, "it's solid"

 

[TheBlueEyedBear]

I think, like Boyd said, after you check the decapping pin your problem will be resolved (hopefully). That will be the easy fix.

 

[Teufelhunden]

Make sure that your decapping stem is not set too low, so that the end of the expander is hitting the inside of the case head. As far as making your bench stronger goes. There are several methods that will work. One way, if it is feasible with your design, is to overlay the top with two layers of 3/4" plywood, glued and screwed from the underside.

Decapping/expander stems gave me fits last year with bottoming, and pulling out on the back stroke. Still, I tried a LEE FL die first with the 260 after getting things sorted and working pretty well with the 223. But the ram was coming up short with case necks wrinkling. The problem was the neck portion of the die. The neck of the die for the 260 is cut too short and the case was bottoming out on the mouth before touching the shoulder. Enter the Body die. I'm going to try again after adding to the bench. The plywood will work as you suggest. I may even add metal as the others have suggested.

When I first started reloading, I sometimes used quite a bit of force to resize cases. As I progressed and got the hang of lubing the cases inside the necks and outside on the body, the amount of force required has reduced dramatically.

Although a stronger bench is a good thing, I would look to your lubing approach first.

Good luck. JCS

Agreed. Lubing skills declined after 7 months of winter. Last year I settled on mink oil after going through a couple different lubes and getting cases stuck. Then dimpled a few while learning the mink oil. Just out of practice. Will mink oil work for case neck interiors? Do the collet dies benefit from lubing inside the necks?

 

[seanhagerty]

Lube your brass better too.

 

[Teufelhunden]

IMHO, the fact that your turning your die to touch the shell holder and then adding another turn is the problem. I screw in my dies to contact the shellholder and then SCREW in the die 1/2 turn for starters. It is from this position that I start the shoulder bumping to whatever number the shoulders after firing move to. And make sure you have lubricated the casing sufficiently at the lower portions near the base.

I will screw the die out a half turn, and concentrate more lube at the lower portion of the case.

 

[dansig]

I had the same problem with my desk so this is what I did..

bolted the press on a 1x1ft 2" oak board, and then I can secure the press on any desk with a clamp without damaging anything

 

[markm87]

Lube your brass better too.

No doubt! Is this a Hornady One Shot nightmare? Time for some Dillon case lube.

I size all kinds of rifle brass on the same type of benchtop without the slightest issue.

unlubed 9mm brass used to be brutal on my benchtop though.

 

[Teufelhunden]

dansig, do you reload at work?

Lube your brass better too.

No doubt! Is this a Hornady One Shot nightmare? Time for some Dillon case lube.

I went through the OneShot nightmare last year. Still trying to figure out a use for the near full can laying on the floor under the bench. I'm going to try Imperial, and will add Dillon to the list.

 

[markm87]

I went through the OneShot nightmare last year. Still trying to figure out a use for the near full can laying on the floor under the bench.

I blew mine up with tannerite! ;D

Good therapy...

 

[Teufelhunden]

I went through the OneShot nightmare last year. Still trying to figure out a use for the near full can laying on the floor under the bench.

I blew mine up with tannerite! ;D

Good therapy...

Good idea. Hornady conveniently prints a bullseye on the front of the can...looks like a 400yd target to me.

 

[BoydAllen]

Fellows,
I highly recommend RCBS Case Lube II. It is water soluble. I apply a light coat with my fingers. It works fine. Always clean your die of previously used lube, before switching lubes, and put a little in the die, with a Q tip, before sizing the first case.

In looking back at my previous post, I was probably in too big of a hurry to read his and write mine, due to the lateness of the hour.

Although I would still check the position of the decapping stem, I would also add that all you have done by turning your die down a full turn from touch is limit the available leverage. A full turn amounts to about .071".

The reason that your case's shoulder to head dimension increased is that the case had not gone far enough into the die to contact its shoulder, and as the diameter of the case, at the shoulder is sized smaller, this is normal.

You should also remember that shoulder bump should be set relative to the largest measurement that a given rifle will produce, which is not what you will usually get from one firing.

After you discover what is stopping your case so abruptly, I suggest that on once fired brass, you set the die to put the shoulder exactly where it was as fired, and test to see how the bolt closes on a sized case. I usually caution against using bolt feel to set a die, but your post contained enough information to be sure that your die is sufficiently smaller than your chamber to make this technique useful. At some point, after some number of firings, if the loads are warm enough, you will have a case that feels tight when sized so that the shoulder is located as fired, save this case as a reference for setting your die for shoulder bump.

One problem that can come up with cases that have somewhat heavy construction at the shoulder, is that there will be some inconsistency in the amount of bump obtained, within a given set of cases, with the same die setting. This is normal, and there are various ways to deal with it. But since this is already becoming a book. I will leave that to another discussion. One thing that I will mention is that if cases that have significant differences in bolt feel are shot in the same group, accuracy will suffer.

 

[Teufelhunden]

Thank you, Mr. Allen. I believe you just answered a couple of my original questions plus 7 I hadn't asked yet.

The piece of brass which had grown in length during the sizing attempt is difficult to chamber. The once fired brass I haven't touched seems to chamber with a very slight amount of drag on some, and little to none on others. Would it be safe to load the first go around by neck sizing only with the collet die, or is that asking for trouble? I understand your explanation on how to size the first go around, but thought I'd ask anyway. BTW, I'm using a separate universal type decapping die to eliminate that potential problem during sizing.

I'll try the RCBS lube.

I've been lurking on this forum for the better part of 2 years and was hoping you'd get back to me on this. I figured there was an interruption of sorts. You are a treasure trove of information, and manage to type responses filled with useful information in a lucid fashion which rivals or surpasses the most well written technical manuals I've ever had the pleasure of reading. Thanks again.

 

[BoydAllen]

Thanks. Of course you can use the collet die if the bolt close is not too tight. Be sure to put a thin film of BOLT GREASE , not oil, on the locking surfaces of your bolt lugs. (Putting a little more on the cocking cam is good too.) What Lee press are you using?

 

[Teufelhunden]

Thanks. Of course you can use the collet die if the bolt close is not too tight. Be sure to put a thin film of BOLT GREASE , not oil, on the locking surfaces of your bolt lugs. (Putting a little more on the cocking cam is good too.) What Lee press are you using?

I grease the lugs, but didn't know there was a specific grease for that purpose. Is it anything like high temp wheel bearing grease? I've been using a light gun grease, but was thinking something heavier would be more suitable. Breech Lock Challenger press.