Novice reloading question

[lazyeiger]

I am setting up to reload for .308 F TR. I have the Redding competition die set with the neck bushing die the bullet seating die and the full length die. I understand the seating die and the neck bushing die operation. I am at a loss to understand how the full length resizer sets the shoulder back. Acording to the instructions ( and the Tubb reloading video) the die is screwed into the press with the ram in uppermost position until the bottom of the die just touches the ram...no problem there! Then the shoulder is measured and it is determined that it needs to be set back some amount. Run the case through the full length resizer and the shoulder still needs to be set back say 0.005". Screw the die down some more into the press, here is where I am having a problem understanding, if the die bottom is already touching the ram in the up position how can screwing the die down further in the press make the case go up further in the die? Isn't this limited by the top of the shell holder touching the bottom of the die??

Confused!! Jon

 

[HillbillySniper]

You just need to cam your press over even tho the die is touching your shell holder it'll still set the shoulder back if you need to go .005" you'll wanna go just a little bit at a time to git it just right. Good luck.

Hillbilly

 

[whiskey08]

is the third die a body die, if so find a case that is kinda sticky when operating the bolt or chambering. Adjust the body die down until the case chambers easily, or in some cases with a slight pressure from the bolt. That is setting back or bumping the shoulder.

The theory is that if you only bump the shoulder a .001 or .002 you dont over work the brass, and you maintain your chamber dimensions closely. Which will help maintain consistency for accuracy sakes

Make sure you do it after you neck size, neck sizing may slightly pull the shoulder back out.

I have a fl sizing die with a bushing, you can also use that die, to do the same thing. You can also remove the bushing and turn it into a body sizing die. (according to instructions from redding)

 

[BoydAllen]

Fire a case, only neck sizing, until it seems a bit tight, when you chamber it. Knock out the primer with a punch, and measure it with one of those tools that are attachments for a dial caliper, that give you a relative measurement from somewhere on the flat of the shoulder, to the back of the case. Save this case, and mark it, as an example of the longest that your rifle produces, head to shoulder. Now you can set up your body or FL die (If it is a FL die that has an expander ball, remove the expander ball, and decap your test case with a punch. If a bushing FL die, leave the bushing out till the shoulder bump is set. Either of these options will prevent excessive working of the neck during setup) Now, lube the case, and turn the die into the press so that it is about the thickness of a dime above the raised shell holder. size the case, and measure it with the caliper attachment that you used on your example case. Keep adjusting the die and checking the measurement (using the same case. If your starting point does not let the case touch the shoulder of the case, at the top of the ram stroke, you will see the base to shoulder measurement start to get longer as you adjust the die down. When the measurement peaks and starts to shorten, you are very close, and need to make very small moves with the die. Remember that in the case of a 14 pitch thread (like the die has) one full turn of the die brings it .071 closer to the shell holder. Putting it another way, to make a .001 adjustment only requires an adjustment of 1/71 if a turn, about five degrees. For a bolt rifle you will want to have a bump in the range of .001 to .002. If you turn a die down till it touches the shell holder, without a case being sized, and then size a case, leaving the ram at its highest position, with the case that is being sized in the die, the additional down force on the press linkage will cause a small gap to appear, between the die and shell holder, leaving you room for a few more thousandths of adjustment, if you need it. If you need more than that, you will have to shorten the shell holder a bit.

 

[Cameron SS]

I think we have the same dies. If by full length die, you mean full length BODY SIZING die, then we do have the same dies.

The instructions that redding supplies for the body die seem to me to be a bit similar to a regular die set up, which I have found to be in appropriate for the point of a body die.

.001 to .002 set back will prevent over working the brass, as others have suggested. Using the supplied method where you screw the die down until it touches the shell holder usually resultes in about .010 set back. For one of my calibres it was as much as .015. In any event, this method is meant to set the shoulder back to below SAAMI spec. Your chamber could be as much as .010 above SAAMI spec before you would start to see head space problems.

The RCBS precision mics are a good tool to have for measuring your case length off of the shoulder to see how it measures compared to spec, and then you can use that measurement to set up your dies, and then measure sized cases. If you are only loading the one calibre, I'd recommend the precision mic. If you are reloading for many calibres, then there are other options. Hornady, Sinclair, and Lee all have simpler tools that allow you to measure multiple calibres, that are much more cost effective than the precision mic.

To set up the dies without having to measure at all; take a fired case, lube it, and insert it into the shell holder, and then run it up into your press with no die installed. Then take your body die and screw it down onto the lubed case until you feel it just make contact. You'll note that the shell holder will likely not be touching the die at all, but with not much clearance in between. Lower the press, then screw the die in another 1/71 of a turn (thanks for the exact math BOYD, I've been eyeballing that one for a while), and set the lock ring on the die.

Note that I've found when you set the lock ring on a die, it usually pulls up on the die a thou or two, because of the way the lock ring puts pressure on the threads. I HIGHLY recommend getting some kind of measuring tool so you can get yourself into that .001-.002 set back range.

Last but not least, there seems to be a bit of a debate on the thread as to whether or not you should full length size every time, or only when bolt open gets sticky.

Advantage of not sizing everytime is you don't have to size every time.

Advantage of sizing every time is when you size, you are sizing the same amount every time, and you cases are more consistent (albeit not much) from firing to firing. If you wait until bolt gets sticky, then you are probably going to be sizing it more than just .001-.002. You will be sizing it back to .001-002 less than your chamber. You are likely over by .003-.005 if your bolt has started to get sticky. Sizing every time prevents it from even getting that far in the first place.

I've done the math, and it seems to be the same amount of brass working either way, haven't heard a definitive answer one way or the other. For load development and matches I resize every time just for consistency. When just training or practicing, I use the first method.

 

[BoydAllen]

Another little detail...cases don't get sticky at the same time, and if you mix sticky with not, your groups will open, significantly.