Can somebody explain why I cannot put cases in a pan of water, with shoulders and neck exposed, and anneal in a 500 degree oven? I have read never to do this but to mee seems like it would work. Would wet sand be any better? I am wanting to start annealing but To me available options are way overpriced.
Water bath anneal
- Thread starter Nicktheshooter
- Start date
BeefyT11
Silver $$ Contributor
Assuming you have a cordless drill. You would only need a properly sized socket propane pencil torch head and propane bottle. It's slow, and tedious. But economical (20-30 $) and if done properly works as well as the other automated propane setups. Although maybe not quite as consistant.
Straightshooter1
Gold $$ Contributor
You DON'T want to anneal the whole case! Only the neck and shoulder area. You can't control how much is being heated this way, even if you filled the case to the same level as the water or sand outside.
Water turns to steam at 212 would be one good reason!
In theory if you could get your oven up to 600° you could anneal “brass” in an oven . When using such a low temperature as your heat source you would need to keep the “ cartridge case “ in that heat for several minutes. They say 600* for one hour will anneal brass but I believe they mean a block of brass not a thin walled cartridge case so I’d think that timing would be less for pieces of cartridge brass . How much less I don’t know but several minutes would not seem unreasonable as stated above .
Even if you could get your oven hot enough . The water will heat up as well allowing the lower section of the case to over heat . Even if the water did not get much hotter then boiling temp the head of the case would still be sitting on the pan which would be very hot . The bath method is intended to be done while using a torch on the neck and shoulder . This allows the water to stay cool because it’s never subjected to the heat source like it would be in an oven .
Even if you could get your oven hot enough . The water will heat up as well allowing the lower section of the case to over heat . Even if the water did not get much hotter then boiling temp the head of the case would still be sitting on the pan which would be very hot . The bath method is intended to be done while using a torch on the neck and shoulder . This allows the water to stay cool because it’s never subjected to the heat source like it would be in an oven .
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RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
Imagine the problem with trying to get the necks above the annealing temperature before the water started to boil violently.
If the water starts to flash off, the vapor and splash would prevent the necks from getting to temperature and when the water is all gone, there is a danger that the body would end up as hot as the necks.
If the water starts to flash off, the vapor and splash would prevent the necks from getting to temperature and when the water is all gone, there is a danger that the body would end up as hot as the necks.
Water boils at 212 at sea level. Lower higher.
The water would evaporate and that evaporation would not let that bass get much hotter than 212 until the water was gone.
Torch annealing with the case body submerged is one method. With templaq inside the neck you might be sucessful.
Like all things in reloading consistency is the key. Doing it the same way every time on every piece of brass.
You decide
The water would evaporate and that evaporation would not let that bass get much hotter than 212 until the water was gone.
Torch annealing with the case body submerged is one method. With templaq inside the neck you might be sucessful.
Like all things in reloading consistency is the key. Doing it the same way every time on every piece of brass.
You decide
Annealing with brass in a pan of water is a very old way of doing it but you need to do it with a torch not an oven as you need to heat the neck faster than the water can suck the heat away. I used to do it this way with a two torch set up heating both sides of the neck at the same time. I worked but was a pain because you had to dry the brass afterword.
Annealing with a deep socket in a drill works great for small batches <100. I dump them out of the socket onto a wet towel to suck the heat out of them before it can migrate to the head of the case.
Annealing with a deep socket in a drill works great for small batches <100. I dump them out of the socket onto a wet towel to suck the heat out of them before it can migrate to the head of the case.
Good reply. I asked several times who came up with the goal of 750F. No one knows.
I think it’s based on a reasonable temp and not over doing it.
I agree with others, pan in oven won't work.
If cost is a concern, use a deep well socket, propane torch, and templaq inside a few to dial in your time in the flame.
If better consistency is desired, and funds allow, buy a used annealer on this forum. They show up routinely.
Or ship to DJ's Brass Service
If cost is a concern, use a deep well socket, propane torch, and templaq inside a few to dial in your time in the flame.
If better consistency is desired, and funds allow, buy a used annealer on this forum. They show up routinely.
Or ship to DJ's Brass Service
rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
The following research paper is offered for your consideration... https://www.academia.edu/21283133/Recrystallization_Behavior_of_70_30_Brass
The two most revealing charts regarding the interaction between temperature, time, and % cold work, and their impact on hardness, are attached...
Take your idea and turn it upside down, dip the neck in a hot solution. There are two ways to do this and they aren't expensive.
Oldest method is heating lead to 800 degrees and dip the neck into the molten lead for 6 to 8 seconds.
Newer method is to dip the neck into 1000 degree molten salt for 4 to 6 seconds.
Either method uses a Lee melter pot with your choice of media, lead or bluing salts. I set up a very good Salt bath system for well under $100, and the salt lasts a long time
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/salt-bath-annealing-pros-and-cons.3957016/#post-37271645
With any reasonable annealing temp and time at the neck area it’s impossible to get the body or case head into the annealing temp region.
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
Propane torch, Map Gas cause it burns hotter, brass set in a deep socket stuffed with steel wool so it sticks out the amount you want. Electric or rechargeable dill with the socket and adaptor to turn the brass for 5 to 6 seconds then dropped in a pan or on a wet towel. Do some range pickup brass so you get the feel of it. Darker room so you see the color change in the brass.
Torch set on the counter on end so it's hands free. All you have to do is load and empty the socket for the next piece. Won't be long and you'll be THE MAN!!
Torch set on the counter on end so it's hands free. All you have to do is load and empty the socket for the next piece. Won't be long and you'll be THE MAN!!
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Your looking for problems using the hot Map gas torch.Propane torch, Mapp Gas cause it burns hotter, brass set in a deep socket stuffed with steel wool so it sticks out the amount you want. Electric or rechargeable dill with the socket and adaptor to turn the brass for 5 to 6 seconds then dropped in a pan or wet towel. Do some range pickup brass so you get the feel of it. Darker room so you see the color change in the brass.
Torch set on the counter on end so it's hands free. All you have to do is load and empty the socket for the next piece. Won't be long and you'll be THE MAN!!
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
Havn't found any problems so far and have been using that set up with no issues for the last 10 years + or so. Works like a dream.
Propane isn't as hot and takes longer to heat so the brass has more of a chance to transfer heat towards the case head. Shorter time in the flame =less heat transfer down the case body.
YMMV.
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