Was it a Fluke?

[KwGoch]

Hi Guys,

I'm relatively new to reloading, currently working up a load for the 95 gr Nosler ballistic tip in 243 Win. The rifle is a model 700 with a short (~22") Remington barrel and a little bit of tuning by RWHart's. It's an always in the truck varmint gun, so I don't expect or need benchrest accuracy, but it should be good enough for woodchucks at 300 yards.

Friday evening, I shot 5 round groups at 39, 39.5, and 40 grs of H4350. At 39.5 grs, the 5 round group measured .32" at 100 yards, which I was thrilled with. (attachment 1) I cleaned the bore and went to bed a happy camper.

Sunday evening, under similar conditions, I shot the same load to verify performance and ideally re-zero the rifle for my new found wonderload. This time, it shot pretty terrible by AccurateShooter standards. Suspecting that it was related to the cleaned bore, I moved the target from 200 (my zeroing distance) back to 100, and shot a group of factory ammo (same bullet), followed by another of the same handloads with similar crappy performance. (see attachment 2, and ignore the big holes)

So the real question is, did I just get super lucky on Friday night, or is there something there that I haven't been able to duplicate? Or have others had similar experiences with one dramatically better group out of an otherwise bad load?

Thanks,
Kyle

 

[BoydAllen]

Need more details about the rifle....What stock, bedded, with pillars? How do you clean? What rest? Do you have any sort of wind indicators between you and the target? What is the trigger pull weight? What scope? What sort of rest? Often times I have seen simple things blow up groups, like having the sling stud in contact with a bag, or the butt pad touching the bench. Without a lot more information I do not believe that anyone can really tell you what has happened.

 

[KwGoch]

Need more details about the rifle....What stock, bedded, with pillars? How do you clean? What rest? Do you have any sort of wind indicators between you and the target? What is the trigger pull weight? What scope? What sort of rest? Often times I have seen simple things blow up groups, like having the sling stud in contact with a bag, or the butt pad touching the bench. Without a lot more information I do not believe that anyone can really tell you what has happened.

Certainly,

It's a Remington wood stock, floated and bedded (no pillars). I shoot off of an adjustable front rest with sandbags front and rear. We have a wind sock and anemometer (wind was nil both evenings). The trigger ~2.5lbs, old style Remington. The scope is a Leopold VX I. I clean with Boretech eliminator using the method the recommend.

I'm happy to provide more data; I look forward to learning about this.

Thanks,
Kyle

 

[BoydAllen]

I might be tempted to swap scopes, just for grins.

 

[kolar55]

I might be tempted to swap scopes, just for grins.

I would agree with Boyd on this. Also have you trimmed all the cases to the same length and put a nice smooth chamfer on the inside of the mouth. Many years ago a friend was experiencing the same as you and his bullets were being messed up during seating. Might be worth a quick look.

 

[Richard Coody]

Hi Guys,

I'm relatively new to reloading, currently working up a load for the 95 gr Nosler ballistic tip in 243 Win. The rifle is a model 700 with a short (~22") Remington barrel and a little bit of tuning by RWHart's. It's an always in the truck varmint gun, so I don't expect or need benchrest accuracy, but it should be good enough for woodchucks at 300 yards.

Friday evening, I shot 5 round groups at 39, 39.5, and 40 grs of H4350. At 39.5 grs, the 5 round group measured .32" at 100 yards, which I was thrilled with. (attachment 1) I cleaned the bore and went to bed a happy camper.

Sunday evening, under similar conditions, I shot the same load to verify performance and ideally re-zero the rifle for my new found wonderload. This time, it shot pretty terrible by AccurateShooter standards. Suspecting that it was related to the cleaned bore, I moved the target from 200 (my zeroing distance) back to 100, and shot a group of factory ammo (same bullet), followed by another of the same handloads with similar crappy performance. (see attachment 2, and ignore the big holes)

So the real question is, did I just get super lucky on Friday night, or is there something there that I haven't been able to duplicate? Or have others had similar experiences with one dramatically better group out of an otherwise bad load?

Thanks,
Kyle

Most likely it was a fluke. There are at least a 100 things to try. Most likely if you were to superimpose all those groups you would see the true statistical average group size for your shooting style, the rifles potential and your reloads potential.

Now that is not to say all of the above can't be improved. That is what everyone here strives for.

 

[Eddie Harren]

1 group shows promise, not proof. It is also just as easy to pull one into a group as it is to pull one out.

 

[TAJ45]

I might be tempted to swap scopes, just for grins.

Very much so....parallax, eye position.
I always go past my intended mark then back to it - as long as that is compressing the spring bearing on the erector tube. A machinist would say: "take the lash out". This is making sure the spring is under consistent tension.

 

[Mozella]

As they say, "Sometimes all the bullets just happen to fall into the same hole". There are several reasons why one group out of a series of test groups is particularly good, an one of those reasons is pure, dumb luck.

What's really important is hitting what you want NEXT time, whether that be shooting an elephant in the eye or shooting 60 X's in the next F-Class match. It's common sense that a shooter would try to duplicate a great 3 or 5-shot group, but unless you can come close to doing that it really doesn't mean anything. You need to keep searching until you come up with an ammo recipe, a set of shooting equipment, and a shooting style with which you have confidence and with which you can reliably demonstrate good performance at the target. That's the real test.

Unfortunately for most of us, that is easier said than done.

 

[ebb]

Even if it was a fluke , are you ready to give up? The rifle did it once, I would be looking for the second time every time I pulled the trigger.

 

[hogpatrol]

If you started with a clean bore, how many shots fired before the good group. Was the second session exactly as the preceding one? Some rifles need a few rounds to settle down after cleaning.

 

[BoydAllen]

Following the above post with a story....I once met a fellow at the range who had been chasing accuracy with a stainless Ruger 77 chambered in .270 Winchester. He was getting nowhere, treating the barrel like a smooth aftermarket barrel rather than an unlapped factory number. Bottom line, he was cleaning it way too often. I forget how many shots between cleanings, but when he took my advice and kept shooting, without stopping to clean it came together quite nicely, not benchrest, but for a big game rifle, just fine. End of story

 

[mgunderson]

Welcome to reloading and the search for improvement. You are not alone.

My list of issues and mess ups is much longer. Had a beam scale with a dead band, worn out barrel, loose barrel, bad head space, poorly set up dies. Bad dies, poor brass.... the list is realy long
Made more bad ammo than good, but it has all been an education.


It is good to be critical of what isn't working, nut ot mau not be the whole answer.....Had a rifle set up that wasn't shooting to my standards and had it forsale on the message board here. Couldn't sell it so I sold it in pieces and kept only the scope. Built a new rifle and put the old scope on for testing.... noticed loose screws on the rings. I sold a perfectly good rifle in parts because of loose screws. Thought I checked them and I know better. BOYDS comment may jave come from experience. I know I read jis comments twice twice looking for wisdom.

A fellow reloader can save you time and money or get a really good deal when you sell a perfectly good rifle.

 

[TAJ45]

1 group shows promise, not proof. It is also just as easy to pull one into a group as it is to pull one out.

Oh, I dunno 'bout that Eddie - there is only one center spot and way too much wide open spaces around the clock, like at least 12, around that chigger.

 

[65 fan]

Oh, I dunno 'bout that Eddie - there is only one center spot and way too much wide open spaces around the clock, like at least 12, around that chigger.

 

[65 fan]

make sure nothing has come loose on the gun.if you did not use locktite on the scope base or rings take it back apart and locktite everything with blue locktite.clean really good then fire 10-15 rounds to fowl barrel,thenshoot some groups.most guns shoot better dirty.

 

[Tommie]

If you started with a clean bore, how many shots fired before the good group. Was the second session exactly as the preceding one? Some rifles need a few rounds to settle down after cleaning.

This

 

[olympian]

+1 Fluke If the 39.5gr load is not repeatable, say shooting several 3 or 5 shot groups, then it was a single lucky group. Even an 2MOA average rifle can shoot an occasional 0.5MOA group.