Warrantless Firearms House Visit Demands in Delaware

[22BRGUY]

The Definition of "CRIMINAL" is someone who DOESN'T obey Laws.......no matter how
many Laws are passed. Chicago has the Strongest Toughest Gun Laws in the country
Do they Work??

 

[drop_point]

Because, in practice, it's inconsequential if I picked up a gun tomorrow and another 1 week after tomorrow versus both at once. If doing it one way keeps me off 1 (extra) list, I'll prefer the off-list method. I transfer my guns through my range and I'm there weekly anyways.

It's not like an "I'll never do that again" aversion, if it was, I would have bought all of my guns when FTF was still legal in my state. I would have also avoided NFA stuff.

Ultimately, your behavior is changed because of aversion to government intrusion. I would call that intimidation.

 

[drop_point]

And let me be clear, its not a knock on you in any way whatsoever. This is all government doing things it shouldn't based off bureaucratic decision making that bypasses the legal system and the Constitution.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I believe what actually was/is taking place is an investigation of the FFL holder. If ATF believes straw sales are occurring they will go after the dealer first(Obama/Biden administrations have clearly stated they want to reduce FFL holders) if so they need evidence for a warrant to access financial records. Find the buyer, get him/her to roll on the seller, standard procedure.

 

[tangocharlie]

I am not a lawyer. I have tried to be a law abiding citizen for as long as I can remember. If someone shows up at my door and ‘asks’ to see something, is there a problem with telling them, “No, thank you.” If it becomes an official visit with a warrant, THEN it becomes a matter of compliance. You don’t need to tell them to get the hell off your property or let your man-eating Yorkie out, just politely decline until SWAT gets involved. Just curious.

 

[rijndael]

Ultimately, your behavior is changed because of aversion to government intrusion. I would call that intimidation.

I have two choices: 1. Avoid it 2: Keep doing it as some type of protest.

I care more about being off lists than I do about sticking it to 'the man'. I choose to spend my energy fixing the systems in ways other than these types of ineffective protests.

 

[358WCF]

Depending on further escalation I might show them the guns... on the porch... after/while discussing their actions in respect to my rights. Dickish attitudes, dont fly well at my house either. The guy with the papers struck me as borderline arrogant. For a "routine" visit, the vests, & the number of cops, as well as the one guy standing off to the side in the yard, before the "We can save the trip coming back" (basically a show of force) strikes me as a veiled threat. Some things are better left unsaid. I dont respond well to threats when I've done nothing to deserve them.

 

[D-4297]

Having been "visited" by the FBI with regard to my participation in the Bundy Ranch situation , ( My Group was asked to provide security for the Family at their Compound ) I have learned that the Feds use tactics they can deny in Court later on , to accomplish "their" goals . They said it was just a "interview" and I hadn't violated any Laws , but the first thing they did after sitting down , was pull out mini-tape recorders , and pads for "Note-taking" . I said ; "We are done here". Please Leave . Their response was ; "We can get a Warrant"! "Please feel free to do so , now , GET OUT" !They never came back .
Regardless of whether you have done anything that may be construed as illegal or not , MAKE THEM GET THEIR WARRANT ! If they could get the warrant to begin with , they would have it the first time around . Just my opinion on this , but my Lawyer said I did it correctly. Make your own choice on this subject . I refuse to be intimidated by their Gestapo !

 

[LarryDScott]

There are people I know that have purchased multiple firearms (handguns included) that have never had this happen to them (we shoot together, so he would have mentioned it).

What happened in the video is IMO selective harassment (by law enforcement) against a person who has committed no crime.

I have transferred multiple handguns to buyers, and so far none have not been checked. This is not something new. I have been an FFL for 20yrs and it was the rule of the day back then. I will say in todays antigun environment it will likely surface more often. I understand the straw purchase possibility, and also if a buyer makes a multiple purchase w/the intent to resell. LDS

 

[GLO123]

Don’t talk to the police when they come knocking, Unless they have a warrant. Anything that you say or do will be held against you.

 

[Old Navy]

Illegal use and/or purchase of firearms hurts all of us. Straw purchases are a risk to a peaceful society. These guys are out doing their job. They didn't just pick this guy out of thin air to harass him. They explained what they were doing and why. It makes sense to me and I wouldn't have an issue with it.

Let's help LEOs get the bad actors out of the illegal firearms business; not make their jobs more difficult.

That's just my take on this and I realize that others will feel differently.

My take also. Great post.

 

[Louisiana Shooter]

How did they know about the guns in the first place?

The LIST ALL BY IT'S SELF is totally unconstitutional.

THAT IS A GUN REGISTRY by any other name.

Ask for a warrant.........Without a warrant, tell them get off the property and close the door. They have NO BUSINESS there.

 

[ebb]

I would ask the ATF agents to leave my property. The state trooper could come in and have a cup of coffee. Until the ATF prosecutes their own who were responsible for fast and furious, and other criminal acts they have no respect from me. They are more criminal than the straw purchasers.

 

[Louisiana Shooter]

Somebody posted this on another thread, but here it is again:

 

[David Milisock]

Violation of the 4th amendment.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

They had no probable cause of any violation of law which is why they had no warrant.

If law enforcement comes to your door and wants to see anything inside or come inside the need probable cause and or a warrant.

 

[David Milisock]

Why not start with a letter? Our a phone call? Why are they dressed like bums.

Who knows if these guys were really cops? I've been in graphics 45+ years a passable badge or document 8s just a computer and 3D printer away. Protect yourself, call a local cop, get a lawyer, say nothing, cooperate fully when represented.

 

[MUP]

Ok, so we ask to see a warrant, and they leave, but come back with a warrant (not sure on what grounds), what then? This seems initially on unconstitutional grounds, but coming back with a warrant to check on an otherwise lawful purchase? Seems that may cross the line?

 

[rijndael]

but come back with a warrant (not sure on what grounds), what then?

You make sure you have a good lawyer.

They were knocking at the door, without one, because they wanted you to give them something they weren't entitled to. If they could have gotten a warrant, my guess is that they would have started with one.

 

[JTEX]

I would ask the ATF agents to leave my property. The state trooper could come in and have a cup of coffee. Until the ATF prosecutes their own who were responsible for fast and furious, and other criminal acts they have no respect from me. They are more criminal than the straw purchasers.

OUTSTANDING POST!!!!!

 

[BlueWater]

Warrantless Firearms House Visit Demands in Delaware

This is what happens when it's treated as "the King's road," "the King's arms," and the like. As though it's their liberties to dole out to the peons when the mood suits them.

Treated as subjects, essentially. And, with verification of ownership and legitimacy, like criminals.

Ought to be dealt with as flatly unconstitutional, along with every single other such RKBA infringement. But the courts don't have the spine to do it.