Want your national forest roads reopened?

[bluealtered]

I knew before i posted this that this would be result, some would have a healthy discussion and some would use it for their own personal rant. Guess what? Thats fine, the only thing i ask is that we keep it civil for everyone.

This nation has gone in the last ten years from a road open unless posted closed to a all roads closed unless posted open, in all national forests, grasslands and it's deserts. This is a enviromental extreme at it's very worse. Now, tell me did you vote this in?

No you didn't, because one area at a time it was put in place across the nation whether you liked it or not. Now of course you had chance to go to the meetings about it happening, i have been going to those meetings for ten years now and ALL, ... yes all have been the same thing in common,"we value your input on this, ... but this what we are going to do"

So, while we were out at our matchs, or out hunting, without a shot, (sorry) without any fan fair, we lost the choice of where we can go simply because we want to. Whether or not you think the roads in our national forests or grasslands or deserts should be opened or closed, you didn't get to say anything about it.

What you had before this happened was called the freedom of choice. All you needed to do was respect where you went, nothing more. While our members from some of the other countries may or may not have that choice, ours has slipped away. Saying that the actions of a few stupid people who have trashed or torn up our land is good reason to lock out the rest of Americans who respect our land is simply stupid as well.

Congressman Walden is trying to give that choice back to you, if you want it back contact your elected person in office and tell them. If you want it to remain closed then you don't have to do anything. We had the right to choose where and when we went because others before us fought to keep that right, it is our job to do the same for those who will come after us.

 

[onelastshot]

Where there are roads there are those with physical limitations that can enjoy at least a percentage of those things that you do! JMHO, no I'm am not one with limits.

Well, I hate to admit it but I am one with limits! At least, that's what my ex told me once or twice a day. Everything just wasn't quite good enough for her; I just lacked the skills I guess

On a serious note, there are pros and cons on this issue. Open the roads and you've got 4 wheelers, and every other sort of vehicle playing in the woods. Personally, I'd prefer it limited to horses. Pack in with a horse and for those who have limitations, make exceptions for them. We have exceptions today all over the country for special permits for parking for those with limitations. I'm certain some compromise can be made to satisfy both camps.

I personally don't want unlimited open access. I think of it as a gateway for the lazy slobs. Go to Walmart; it's amazing how many people under 50 need those electric carts just to shop. They're not handicapped, they're fat and lazy. I don't want our forests opened to those who want to drive to their tree stand because it's too far to walk. Hunting is a sport often, a very physically demanding sport. Make exceptions for those who have limitations beyond their own control such as veterans who've come home missing a limb. Let the Walmart electric cart sort stay home.

 

[SS427]

I live in Oregon and support closing many of the logging roads that have been pushed to the top of every mountain and into every valley for the purpose of logging. I have no problem with logging a renewable resource and the roads will always be there to reopen when the second growth is ready to harvest. But there is no need to have roads open into all these areas. Elk have been driven into the most remote road less areas because they are not tolerant of all the vehicle and ATV traffic. Areas that are left open end up with garbage dumps and the ATVs tear the hell out of everything.

Some people will complain about no place to ride ATVs and go 4 wheeling, but there are all sorts of areas open and dedicated for that purpose in Oregon.

I'm coming from a perspective of a hunter and someone who rides ATVs. I see both sides of the issue, and don't have strong feelings either way. If I had my choice though, I'd rather see the areas closed off.

 

[farmboy]

Bluealtered: you have stated things well.
I have had 2 primary occupations over the years: ranching and Law Enforcement. We are part of a culture of entitlement slobs. Some of the responsibility for that falls on us. It is wrong to expect the government to enforce everything at the point of a Roman spear. There is a point somewhere where the responsibility falls on us as to what we will accept for behavior from those around us.
Growing up, going to country dances as a small boy, there was a code of conduct (respect). If that code was violated the issue was taken care of. We have allowed the "dance hall rules" to be violated in our dance hall and expected others to take care of the problem; good men have done nothing and evil is flourishing.
I spend a lot of time in the Bighorns of Wy and will not accept disrespectful behavior from anyone. It is up to us to take care of what is ours.

 

[Warren Dean]

Bluealtered: you have stated things well.
I have had 2 primary occupations over the years: ranching and Law Enforcement. We are part of a culture of entitlement slobs. Some of the responsibility for that falls on us. It is wrong to expect the government to enforce everything at the point of a Roman spear. There is a point somewhere where the responsibility falls on us as to what we will accept for behavior from those around us.
Growing up, going to country dances as a small boy, there was a code of conduct (respect). If that code was violated the issue was taken care of. We have allowed the "dance hall rules" to be violated in our dance hall and expected others to take care of the problem; good men have done nothing and evil is flourishing.
I spend a lot of time in the Bighorns of Wy and will not accept disrespectful behavior from anyone. It is up to us to take care of what is ours.

Well put, farmboy. I also grew up in a dance hall era...but out in West Texas. Your analogy is spot on and I tip my hat you or that one.

Like you, I do not suffer "beer hunters" or slobs well at all. It's about time men in this country grew some stones and stood up for what is right without worrying about political correctness.

 

[bluealtered]

Well guys you are correct, i am a person who grew up in that time as well. And as such i learned to respect others and in return earn respect. (and yes there were a few times i ate dinner standing up because it hurt to much to sit down.)

We have in America spent the last 50-60 years teaching our children they aren't accountable for anything they do, those children have now taught their children and grand kids the same.

And now we act supprised when they go on a rampage and kill everyone around them, what the h*ll did we expect to happen?

I am also very proud of our young people who have stepped up and taken responsability for themselves and our country, they are the future.

 

[mytwo60]

Well if closing more roads prevents slobs and poachers then why not close more? How about 50% more? How about 80% more? Will that be better?

 

[TheOtherZilla]

You'll get slobs and poachers whether or not the roads are closed.. It has nothing to do with slobs but everything to do with PUBLIC access.. A lot of the closed roads existed way before the Forest Nazi's were a govmnt agency.. I say open em up!

 

[TonyinKY]

The USFS slowly whittles away riding areas here in KY and will not stop until it's all closed. I'm ALL about putting more power in local government wherever and for whatever!

 

[timeout]

You'll get slobs and poachers whether or not the roads are closed.. It has nothing to do with slobs but everything to do with PUBLIC access.. A lot of the closed roads existed way before the Forest Nazi's were a govmnt agency.. I say open em up!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This!

 

[deadwooddick]

It has nothing to do with slobs but everything to do with PUBLIC access.. A lot of the closed roads existed way before the Forest Nazi's were a govmnt agency.. I say open em up!

Doesn't matter one whit WHY they closed them to motorized traffic… access hasn't been eliminated since all ya' gotta do is "get boots on the ground."

 

[wyoming .260]

The Biggest problem I see and I may be wrong is that when you have a lot of open roads in the forests and heavy atv traffic, the elk here in the Bighorns move away from the Public land and go down in to little niches of closed public land. It is frustrating to me , to have hundreds of thousands of acres of Forest land and Ninety percent of the elk are pushed down on a few private ranches. I can see the elk from my house with a spotting scope and they stay until It gets warm in spring. The are not being hunted . If the hunting was limited to foot or horse access. them elk would all be in public land for all to enjoy. not just a few landowner tags and a few that will pay, High( ridiculously HIGH) trepass fee. I also used to live in North east Pa, and there alot of the public land was closed to atv traffic, but you would never know it but the trail conditions and damage left behind by them. ATVS as a sport are a revenue for the states in registrations and I get that. But when you go on the mountains here and even on the main forest roads have to be watchful of speeding side by sides and atvs that are doing 50 in your lane. It is real difficult to work up much sympathy for their case with closed roads.

Just my humble opinion

 

[TheOtherZilla]

The Biggest problem I see and I may be wrong is that when you have a lot of open roads in the forests and heavy atv traffic, the elk here in the Bighorns move away from the Public land and go down in to little niches of closed public land. It is frustrating to me , to have hundreds of thousands of acres of Forest land and Ninety percent of the elk are pushed down on a few private ranches. I can see the elk from my house with a spotting scope and they stay until It gets warm in spring. The are not being hunted . If the hunting was limited to foot or horse access. them elk would all be in public land for all to enjoy. not just a few landowner tags and a few that will pay, High( ridiculously HIGH) trepass fee. I also used to live in North east Pa, and there alot of the public land was closed to atv traffic, but you would never know it but the trail conditions and damage left behind by them. ATVS as a sport are a revenue for the states in registrations and I get that. But when you go on the mountains here and even on the main forest roads have to be watchful of speeding side by sides and atvs that are doing 50 in your lane. It is real difficult to work up much sympathy for their case with closed roads.

Just my humble opinion

In my experience that's just what Elk do. Move away from the pressure.. Around here on the mostly open BLM land with no closed roads he Elk move to where the people aint. Same thing happens when I hunt in the mountains..

IMO the 4 wheelers and side by sides are the BIGGEST problem.. Furthermore Wyoming G&F is doing nothing about it..

 

[bluealtered]

One of the places i hunt happens to have a motorcycle/atv trail system that runs through it. I hunted it before that system was there and still hunt it now many years after it came in. The bottom line here is that when those trails were new, yes the game did move away for a while, however this is where they were born and raised and it only took about a year before they were right back there and have been there ever since.

The game born there after the trails came in have known the trails all their life and even use the trails to get past the stacks of blowdown trees in that area. All of the game in that area simply will move off the trail and into the brush when they hear something coming and go right back to where they were after it passes.

The only hunting i do is predator hunting and it requires me to sit sometimes for hours to call in what i am hunting, that has allowed me to learn a lot about what does or doesn't spook the deer, elk and other game. Very few people here are stupid enough to chase any game more than once with a bike or atv. More than one atv/bike has gone home no longer running if they were caught. The place to correct the chasing problem is right then and there.

It's your land and if you don't take care of it, it will be locked up just like it has been. It's much easier to sit at the key board and complain about how it is than stand up and do something about it. Life is very simple, you get out of it exactly what you put into it. This is an American birthright that has been taken from you and you now have a chance to get it back. If you won't do that then the most polite thing i can say is, ... stop whinning. It hurts my ears.

 

[North Fork]

ELK can do alot of damage to your property, They tear up your friut trees tear down your fences

 

[Trapper243]

National Forests are different from one end of the country to the next. The blanket rules being applied that are closing areas need to have local input. The people living in these areas need to have a major say as to what is happening in their own back yards, one way or the other.

 

[bluealtered]

That very much hits the nail square on the head Trapper243. We the people who live here in the middle of it are way past sick and tired of eviromental groups/people who have never been here and never will be here knowing whats best for us.

These are the same people who watch the 5:00 news and when they see our forests burning up every year, they shake their heads and say, gosh how terrible, we should do something about that! Well guess what stupid, you did, YOU CAUSED IT!!

 

[farmboy]

Again Blue you have stated things well. Much of the forest country I learned to cowboy in is so overgrown that it can't support wildlife. Animal life can't live on a floor of pure needles. When you have that tremendous amount of fuel buildup it seems to take an uncontrollable fire to clean up and regenerate the habitat.

 

[Warren Dean]

Moderators......Please kill this thing.

 

[bluealtered]

Warren i realize that this may not be the most popular subject to some, however it has shown that it's a subject that people are interested in and care very much about as well. It affects in one way or another most of the people in this country.

I certainly respect a persons right to want either open or closed roads. However they, the people who live there should choose this and not some not some blanket policy by someone 3,000 miles away. The people who live there are smart enough to know whats best for them and their area.

If the county commissioners, (or whatever form of local government is in place there) isn't doing the will of the people there, then theres another problem that only those people who live there can correct.