VV lot to lot consistency

[XTR]

I found N150 looking at the charts and looking for a substitute for H4350 with 215s, and I found it much faster. It didn't work for me in that application, but I found that it worked well with the 200s. I also found running it with 200s is that you really can't overpressure a load. The density is such that the case just won't hold enough.

I've taken a fired case and sized it w/o decapping or the bushing installed. Running a typical .170ish freebore and a 10" drop tube you get about 44.7gr±.1 give or take with the bullet sitting on the powder measured to touching the lands length, and 44.7 gets you running about 2670ish or so.

 

[mac86951]

Many things are possible with a tall enough drop tube.....

3031 is great, but it takes a real tall drop tube. Those sticks are almost cordite length

-Mac

 

[Laurie]

It didn't work for me in that application, but I found that it worked well with the 200s. I also found running it with 200s is that you really can't overpressure a load

N150 has been the most widely used powder by far amongst UK F/TR competitors for many years now - since before the switch to Lapua 'Palma' small primer cases, first with the Berger 185 Juggernaut and 210gn LRBT, since mainly with 200s. With large primer Lapua cases, it's all too easy to produce over-pressures with N150 -I've seen a good few blown primers from people who simply copied others' loads. Small primer brass allows some really impressive MVs, but at what I suspect are equally impressive pressures.

As we have far less worry here about high temperatures than in North America, this has given our F/TR (and the much older 'Match Rifle' discipline shooters) more latitude to run 'hot'. There is a price as in everything though - sometimes less than 2,000 rounds barrel life despite the much slower / cooler pace of the pairs shooting we practice.

Since the move to heavier bullets from 155s, H. VarGet saw much reduced F/TR use here. First, because we mostly prefer N150 with heavies anyway on plain performance / precision issues; second, because N150's lot to lot consistency is so much superior; third, cost to us as N150 was a lot cheaper especially when bought in 3.5kg jugs (Hodgdon powders were only very rarely available in Europe in 8lb equivalents); and finally because we kept losing VarGet from our suppliers because of the notorious demand/supply problems. (We had one spell of no H4895/VarGet/H4350 for around 18 months.) It's academic to us anyway as all Australian ADI manufactured Hodgdon powders (ie the entire extruded 'Extreme' series plus IMR-8208 XBR and Trail Boss) have been barred from import to Europe since the middle of last year on health & safety grounds.

I'd certainly recommend any US F/TR shooter who hasn't considered N150 until now to do so.

 

[sfinn1]

Laurie, as to a PM with you previously, I am using N150 in my .223 F TR rifle with 90gr. SMK's. This load is doing very well for me. Love the metering characteristics during loading. I did one quick test with N150 and N140, with same weight of powders and found little to no effect in velocity. Larger cases, probably different story. My N150 load is compressed. One will find, in same weight of powder of the two, N140 will fill less volume than N150. Smaller kernels with N140. I like Vihtavuori and do not plan to change.

Steve

 

[Laurie]

I am using N150 in my .223 F TR rifle with 90gr. SMK's.

Yes, although we're mostly talking 308 Win + N150 here, it really has proven to be a remarkable powder with uses that you'd not think of at first glance. Again, I think it's back to Viht's burning rate classification showing it to be close to the 4350s.

I've used it in 223 a fair bit with 90s, believing (without any real proof only gut feeling) that in return for a bit less velocity than say VarGet, Re15, or for us in the Europe the VarGet equivalent wonder-powder Nitrochemie's Reload Swiss RS52 (think Alliant Re17, but VarGet burning speed and applications), I'd get a bit better barrel life. As in 308 with 155s, the groups are often stunning.

The other surprise we got in the UK with this powder was discovering how well it shoots in 6mm Norma BR with 95-108gn bullets. This turned up during one of the lengthier of VarGet's disappear from the shops acts and when it eventually did reappear hardly anybody switched back again from N150.

The key trick in thinking of possible applications is to forget the burning rate charts as it's not usually that great in cartridge load combinations that really do work well with H4350 and true equivalents. So, it can give good results in 260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmoor and similar for instance but generally with bullets up to 123gn, maybe 130gn tops. If it shoot good groups with 140s and heavier, it'll often only do so with a velocity loss or excessive pressures.

The whole burning rate issue has become a terrible trap and tool to mislead people. All it usefully tells you is that (assuming a propellant's position is accurate, not always the case) is general applications. As powders become ever more sophisticated the variations in actual use and results are becoming bigger.

I've seen an excellent example of how a chart can mislead handloaders and damage a product's prospects, European Lovex SO65 made by Explosia a.s. in the Czech Republic. It first appeared in the UK during the worst / longest of the VarGet shortages and in the Lovex reloading guide was shown on the same line as VarGet. The distributors sold it to retailers on this basis; they in turn sold it on to shooters. SO65 is a poor choice in 308 and similar charge weight to bore ratio designs. It's too slow burning, too bulky, and has considerably less energy than H4895, VarGet, Re15 or equivalents. Looking at the Lovex guide's 308 loads tables shows this for those who look past the charge weights - compressed loads at modest MVs and pressures way down on the cartridge's normal working values until you hit 200gn bullet weight, and even then nothing special. The powder got a terrible hammering and acquired, unfairly as it turned out, a reputation for being useless. Look at Explosia's data for 7X57, 7X64 Brenecke, 30-06 and similar cartridges though and it's obviously well suited to these larger case to bore size numbers. US handloaders can now get SO65 from Shooters World as SW Long Rifle and here's how SW introduces this grade:

https://shootersworldpowder.com/long-rifle/

introducing it as the optimal powder for 6.5 Creedmoor and 260 Rem, classic H4350 applications. I've not used it in either but can believe it as I've had superb groups from it in a 7mm-08 F-Class set-up with 150 Lapua Scenars as a short-distance load.

Now, if only the manufacturer's burn chart had shown it somewhere near IMR and Hodgdon 4350!