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voltage regulator for accurate scale readings

gene so

Hello, this is a serious message and I hope you will treat it as such. I used to compete in 1,000 yard benchrest shooting and the competition pushed my reloading skills to the max. I got a very good electronic scale that read to .000 and yet had problems with trying to get the very low sd's required for small groups at 1,000 yards. A friend with electronic skills pointed out the consistency of voltage delivered to the scale limited its effectiveness. I purchased an APC Line R 1200 voltage regulator plugged into a receptacle and plugged the scale into this device and it seemingly solved my problems. Now, some years later, the unit no longer works and the company says to toss it and buy a new one. NO; I am turning to interested people who hopefully have solved this electricity regulation problem and would appreciate any truthful, experienced ways of dealing with this very real problem. I will not be replacing my electronic scale, I am willing to purchase another device that regulates voltage so a steady stream of clean, consistent voltage can be supplied to my scale.

Thank you for your attention in this matter.
 
Batteries have always worked best for me in precision weighing applications.

Anything plugged into the wall is subject to the variations in its own input. Stuff can be manufactured and work well for "normal" electrical conditions in the US, but lots of local power company and home specific power issues can create large deviations from "normal."

Everything from storms to a bad compressor on an AC or fridge can cause conditions in your home that very few voltage regulators will handle well.

Batteries isolates your precision scale from all of that.
 
You can end your doubts about whether the scale is holding consistent measuring capability by simply finding something like a small stainless screw or nail that weighs the same as your charge weight. All you do is periodically weigh it as you go through the reloading session. if the measurement remains constant then you do not have a need for a voltage regulator.

The negative number that shows when you lift your scale pan is another proxy for this approach.

My suspicion is that SD's or vertical at distance are more likely attributed to load development, brass consistency, neck tension, etc rather than whether your scale was off by a kernel or two of powder.
 
I just ordered a Cyberpower CP1350PFCLCD. I have done a lot of searching and most UPS systems only feed through the batteries when the power goes out. Others don't condition the power or create square sine wave. The problem with the square sine wave is that there are periods in the sine wave that there is no power, all be it very brief times. This unit produces a Pure Sine Wave. Once you hook this up to your scale, computer and other sensitive equipment you won't have to worry.
These are a little pricey, you can get them on Amazon for $170 and free shipping under certain conditions. They also have an 850VA ($120) and a 1000VA ($130).

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00429N19M/?tag=accuratescom-20
 
If your scale has a DC input (most do, I think), you can get a lab power supply which will generate and supply an accurate DC voltage regardless of line variations. Look under lab instruments. Probably cheaper than a line conditioner, and eliminates the wall wart between then line conditioner and the scale.
 
I worked for many years calibrating scales from 1# to 750,000 pounds(tension pulls). Aviation, industrial,military. The most consistent digital and analog board performance was with fully charged batteries. Electrical interference from AC lines was often apart of or occurred with poorly cleaned or sealed boards. We did have one 110 v line(part of an indoor tower tension press)that would pickup the next door McDonald's drive thru wireless signal. Electro magnetic impulse can be hard to trace and block.
 
Coyotefurharvester said:
I worked for many years calibrating scales from 1# to 750,000 pounds(tension pulls). Aviation, industrial,military. The most consistent digital and analog board performance was with fully charged batteries. Electrical interference from AC lines was often apart of or occurred with poorly cleaned or sealed boards. We did have one 110 v line(part of an indoor tower tension press)that would pickup the next door McDonald's drive thru wireless signal. Electro magnetic impulse can be hard to trace and block.
Click to expand...

Exactly my point. Given the fact that most of us are not reloading inside of a Faraday Cage , it is best to get rid of the ballasts which are generating Electro Magnetic Impulses in the general proximity of the scale.
 
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Coyotefurharvester said:
I worked for many years calibrating scales from 1# to 750,000 pounds(tension pulls). Aviation, industrial,military. The most consistent digital and analog board performance was with fully charged batteries. Electrical interference from AC lines was often apart of or occurred with poorly cleaned or sealed boards. We did have one 110 v line(part of an indoor tower tension press)that would pickup the next door McDonald's drive thru wireless signal. Electro magnetic impulse can be hard to trace and block.
Click to expand...

Does WIFI and microwave ovens interfere? How about cell phones? They continusly broadcast a signal even when not being used?
 
The unit you mentioned, an APC (American Power Conversions) Line R 1200 Automatic Voltage Regulator is an AC line voltage regulator. The idea is to compensate for sudden sags or spikes in your AC line voltage, that is all it is so unless you really have poor line voltage delivery from the power company to your location it is really not going to do much for you or your scale. The nominal output voltage 110, 120, or 127 (User Selectable) is only regulated to +6 to -12% and the response time is two AC cycles or about 0.0333 second. That leaves plenty of room for AC line noise and spikes. If your concern is "dirty" or "noisy" AC line power you may want to look at a commonly called line voltage conditioner.

The APC unit you mentioned is also a 1200 Watt unit which is quite a bit of power and more power, way more power, than any simple common scale will require. A good quality scale, should have adequate line voltage filtering and internal power supply filtering to overcome most line voltage issues unless you have really poor power delivery to your location. If the power quality remains a concern I would think about an AC Line Conditioner and you only likely need less than 100 watts capability. I just see what you have as severe overkill. Your scale should have the power requirements on the name-plate data, all you need is maybe 25% over the required power and when buying a line conditioner the higher the power rating the greater the cost.

Webster said:
Does WIFI and microwave ovens interfere? How about cell phones? They continuously broadcast a signal even when not being used?
Click to expand...

A good quality scale should not be affected with by those or similar devices. Among others I have an ancient old RCBS digital scale originally made by PACT. Uses a simple older wall wart power supply and I have tried exposing it to a variety of extraneous noise and signals and the only thing which bothered it was turning a small old style fluorescent lamp, with a ballast transformer on and off and it would immediately become stable following the line spikes.

Turn your scale on, allow a warm up period, toss a small test weight on the scale. Wait 10 or 15 min. Does the scale drift? Does your scale use an internal or external power supply (wall wart). If a wall wart what does the name plate data on the wall wart say?

Ron
 
gene so said:
I purchased an APC Line R 1200 voltage regulator plugged into a receptacle and plugged the scale into this device and it seemingly solved my problems.
Click to expand...
As I interpret this you believe a voltage regulator is responsible for low extreme spreads, is that correct?

I seriously doubt that but I've been wrong before. My A&D FX-330i is plugged directly into a wall receptacle that comes from 3 Mile Island, with fluorescents directly above it. It's only accurate to 0.02 GN but that's less than one kernel of RL-15 or two of H-4198. I've had five shot groups with an extreme spread of 1 fps out of a 30BR. The 6BR however is much more difficult to get the ES that low but I'm happy if it's in the single digits for five rounds.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do what you can to provide your balance with clean power but I seriously doubt that a voltage regulator solved your problem.
 
The original poster stated that he had marked improvement in his scales performance from using a voltage conditioner. I see no reason to question what he experienced. You may have had different experiences.
I have seen voltage variations in different parts of the country and brown outs are not uncommon in many areas. Voltage surges can cause havoc on electronic equipment and these precision scales are no exception. I run protective gear on all my electronics and ensure that the most sensitive, and I might add the most expensive are well protected from surges, voltage variations and insure that they are provided a pure sine wave. I spend a lot of money on equipment, I also spend a lot of money on insurance. In truth, the electronic protection equipment that I use is the cheapest insurance that I carry and it is a one time expense.
 
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+ 1 for the regulated DC Supply to replace the scales voltage converter. I also use Toroid donuts in each leg of the power line and no florescent lights.

Bob
 
DDRH65PRC said:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AX9Z7W4/?tag=accuratescom-20

Will this work?

Line Conditioner = Surge Protector?
Voltage Regulator
and UPS built in.

Some info (but i'm not totally clear on this)
https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/power-conditioner-voltage-regulator-ups-differences-explained/
Click to expand...
A line conditioner is just that. A device which conditions and cleans up a dirty line voltage. A good line conditioner will also include line voltage regulation. Part of the problem in addressing your question(s) is I haven't a clue what scale you have? I asked if the scale used an external DC supply or commonly called a wall wart? Knowing the answers to those questions would go a long way in giving you some ideas as to what you may or may not need. A good quality scale which plugs directly into your AC mains wall outlet using on board power supply should have decent line voltage regulation and adequate filtering affording the scale good power even with poor line voltage and or noisy line voltage.

What info were you not clear on in the link you provided? Most of it can be easily explained. Just ask.

The trip lite UPS you linked to offers line voltage regulation and a true sine wave when AC mains power is available. When running on its internal battery it provides what is called a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) sine wave which while not as clean as a pure true sine wave should run a quality scale. This is merely a guess because again, I have no idea what scale you have or how it is powered. If your scale uses a wall wart please provide the name plate data like Input / Output.

Ron
 
The problems with digital scales are simple. There are so many things that can cause problems for any one of the many different digital scales - including a defective scale or wall-wart power supply - that you really have no idea what fix to apply to which scale. Trial and error.

And if a fix worked for someone else in their reloading room, you have no idea whether it will work for you in your room.

Standard voltage regulators, UPSs, and surge suppressors will not remove noise from the power line. Some may add noise. Ferrite cores will not eliminate OTA noise. None of those will fix a defective scale/transformer. A "lab grade" power supply will fix a defective transformer (so might a $5 replacement part) and will remove a lot of power line noise, but not necessarily all depending on its design/cost.

After trying all of those and watching my GemPro 250 and Chargemaster continue to lose zero and flutter, I bought an A&D FX120i. That worked.

But if I had a digital scale and one or more add-ons that worked for years for me, and part of it failed, I'd consider myself fortunate and the first thing I'd do is replace that part :)
 
Ron Blain said:
A line conditioner is just that. A device which conditions and cleans up a dirty line voltage. A good line conditioner will also include line voltage regulation. Part of the problem in addressing your question(s) is I haven't a clue what scale you have? I asked if the scale used an external DC supply or commonly called a wall wart? Knowing the answers to those questions would go a long way in giving you some ideas as to what you may or may not need. A good quality scale which plugs directly into your AC mains wall outlet using on board power supply should have decent line voltage regulation and adequate filtering affording the scale good power even with poor line voltage and or noisy line voltage.

What info were you not clear on in the link you provided? Most of it can be easily explained. Just ask.

The trip lite UPS you linked to offers line voltage regulation and a true sine wave when AC mains power is available. When running on its internal battery it provides what is called a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) sine wave which while not as clean as a pure true sine wave should run a quality scale. This is merely a guess because again, I have no idea what scale you have or how it is powered. If your scale uses a wall wart please provide the name plate data like Input / Output.

Ron
Click to expand...

Thanks Ron! I'm using the A&D FX120i.

i didn't think i needed the extra protection. I leave my balance on all the time.
however, a few nights ago we had "brown outs"? the electricity just cut off and back on, but it did it about 3-4 consecutive times. then it happened once about 30 minutes later. I went to check the balance and it seems fine. I haven't re-calibrated it yet, i will recalibrate prior to any powder charge.
 
OK, nice scale. Your scale uses an external AC power adapter. Look at the adapter and it will likely show you the AC input AC 100V-240V and DC Out should be 12 VDC 2 Amp. Should that be true here is what I would do. I would go to Amazon and buy a 12 VDC battery tender, something like this, Battery Tender 12 Volt Junior Automatic Battery Charger they can be had for about $15 to $25 USD, then I would invest in a decent 12 volt 7 or 8 amp hour, something like this, 12V 8AH Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) Battery they run about $25. Any auto supply store will have the spade lug connectors and an inline fuse holder. Measure the OD of the connector on the current power plug which plugs into the scale. My guess is it will have a 5.5mm OD. I can make you a drawing if you want. The connectors are also common on Amazon. Just look for 5.5mm DC connectors and make sure you get the gender right to connect into your scale. Run the scale on the battery which will last a long, long time on a single charge and maintain the battery using the battery maintainer. You won't get cleaner power than the DC off a battery.

We just had a discussion about running the RCBS Chargemaster while on the range using a battery, you may want to search for that thread. Anyway, this is how I would do it rather than screw around with the AC using a UPS or AC Line unit.

Ron
 
I ordered the 850VA, it is more than enough to run my scale, static monitor and my computer. I don't really care about the run time. I am more concerned about the voltage, surges and sine wave.
 
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