Video Illustration of tuning loads to barrel harmonics

[Ledd Slinger]

If we reverse phasing will the bullet go back into the barrel??

Absolutely!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Tuners change all frequencies. The one most effecting bullet departure angle is the one the last few inches of the barrel vibrates at for a couple milliseconds after the primer fires.

This shows all of them: https://www.varmintal.com/amode.htm

That's pretty much what I said, or was trying to say by "average"... and I don't disagree. Also, I'm very familiar with Al's work.

 

[Bart B.]

Also, I'm very familiar with Al's work.

I wish more were. Same for Geoffery Kolbe's

 

[Bart B.]

The video describes 'frequency node' as the point where y=0 (amplitude divided by 2) or, said a little differently, the point where the frequency sinusoid intersects the barrel's axis at rest. This is the point at which the vibrating medium (barrel, in this case) is moving at maximum velocity and the rate of change in velocity is at its lowest. This is the worst possible point for bullet exit as the deviation around the mean (the 'frequency node') will be the greatest and, therefore, the groups will be at their largest.

This was Browning's first explanation on the way their BOSS system worked.

Now they say the BOSS simply tunes the vibrations of your barrel which that it allows the bullet to leave the barrel the split second it is stationary at its upper or lower vertical limits.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I agree that this is also something to consider because surely the harmonic vibrations are not only occurring on the 'vertical' axis (z) with a spinning projectile traveling down a circular bore. In fact, there has to be forces creating harmonics on an immeasurable amount of axis. Perhaps the forces most easily 'seen' with a high speed camera are on the vertical axis, but that doesnt mean that is all which is occurring.

View attachment 1087270

I make tuners and have some experience with doing my own vibration analysis, specifically with rifles. I can assure you that the barrel does indeed move in all directions. Adding mass, such as a tuner, makes it more vertically biased than just the gravity and weight of a barrel. It affects initial muzzle deflection even before the trigger is pulled by deflecting the barrel downward simply by having that mass in place. The time in which the bullet is in the bore is all that matters and we're talking roughly 1.5 milliseconds. Factor the speed of sound through 416ss etc and it's easy to "approximate" things. NOT easy to come to EXACT times and frequencies, though. We're chasing a moving target as temps change and frequencies and velocities change with them...The whole package matters..right down to the stock and rest it sets on....and the friction in the bags affects bullet exit times/velocities.

 

[Bart B.]

I can assure you that the barrel does indeed move in all directions. Adding mass, such as a tuner, makes it more vertically biased than just the gravity and weight of a barrel.

With the recoil axis above the rifles center of mass, most of the barrel vibration will be vertical

 

[alinwa]

What blows me away about threads and videos like this is the simple fact that I expect my factory 30-06 to shoot better than that!

I'm dead serious....

This, a "shooting forum" and no one states the bleeding obvious? If I built ANY RIFLE in ANY CALIBER that vomited out those groups at 100 yds, let alone 25yds... I'd start over! At 25yds you should have one tiny round hole with ANYthing.

At 100 yds, with a custom-barreled setup you should have a larger, ROUND hole......

Dude says.... "I always thought I was a good shot"...."LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE".... "but...blahh blahh blahhh...."

DUDE...YOU'RE NOT A GOOD SHOT!!! And yer gun SUCKS!

Mike Ezell.... do these guys a favor and post a pic of some GROUPS so I don't have to!


jeepers....


And citing Geoff and VA and their pixtures and memes?? ....."reverse phasing???"....!!!!!........ "descriptions" of stuff that can't even be SEEN until groups are under 1/4moa??? ....... "tuning" only occurs in groups INSIDE the sort of garbage being cited and shown ...

Please,,,, to all the guys reading this who've never put 25 consecutive rounds into a hole that a dime will cover, at 100yds.....find someone with a RIFLE for cryin' the blues! And stop wasting barrels on "tuning" shotguns....

Come to WA and I'll put you on a gun, on any of TEN guns, where YOU will shoot one teeny hole with no "pulled shots". I've done it, dozens of times with dozens of people. Some of whom had never even FIRED a rifle before.....

 

[Bart B.]

Someone slung up in prone can change bullet impact horizontally by moving his front elbow left and right. They'll change vertical impact up by lowering the butt on their shoulder. All with good sight pictures and center calls.

All because the resistance to recoil changes angles that changes the directions the barrel whips during barrel time.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Lol!

What blows me away about threads and videos like this is the simple fact that I expect my factory 30-06 to shoot better than that!

I'm dead serious....

This, a "shooting forum" and no one states the bleeding obvious? If I built ANY RIFLE in ANY CALIBER that vomited out those groups at 100 yds, let alone 25yds... I'd start over! At 25yds you should have one tiny round hole with ANYthing.

At 100 yds, with a custom-barreled setup you should have a larger, ROUND hole......

Dude says.... "I always thought I was a good shot"...."LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE".... "but...blahh blahh blahhh...."

DUDE...YOU'RE NOT A GOOD SHOT!!! And yer gun SUCKS!

Mike Ezell.... do these guys a favor and post a pic of some GROUPS so I don't have to!


jeepers....


And citing Geoff and VA and their pixtures and memes?? ....."reverse phasing???"....!!!!!........ "descriptions" of stuff that can't even be SEEN until groups are under 1/4moa??? ....... "tuning" only occurs in groups INSIDE the sort of garbage being cited and shown ...

Please,,,, to all the guys reading this who've never put 25 consecutive rounds into a hole that a dime will cover, at 100yds.....find someone with a RIFLE for cryin' the blues! And stop wasting barrels on "tuning" shotguns....

Come to WA and I'll put you on a gun, on any of TEN guns, where YOU will shoot one teeny hole with no "pulled shots". I've done it, dozens of times with dozens of people. Some of whom had never even FIRED a rifle before.....

You're freaking awesome, Al!

Here's a couple of 5 shot groups at 100...same target, one after the other, and the wind was blowing. Yessir, luck helps but I can post others from the same target.

 

[Bart B.]

Come to WA and I'll put you on a gun, on any of TEN guns, where YOU will shoot one teeny hole with no "pulled shots". I've done it, dozens of times with dozens of people. Some of whom had never even FIRED a rifle before.....

All without artificial support with ammo they've loaded or bought somewhere?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

All without artificial support with ammo they've loaded or bought somewhere?

Show us yours!

 

[Bart B.]

Show us yours!

My groups without artificial support are too big to fit in the internet, let alone your device screen.

 

[alinwa]

My groups without artificial support are too big to fit in the internet, let alone your device screen.

OK, so 'AT'S FUNNY right thar'...... I don' care WHO y'are....

Me too Bartman, me too.... I do suck on my hindfeet....

But my GUNS don't!

 

[Prose]

I love this thread. Awesome info and great humor.

 

[alinwa]

Lol!


You're freaking awesome, Al!

Here's a couple of 5 shot groups at 100...same target, one after the other, and the wind was blowing. Yessir, luck helps but I can post others from the same target.
View attachment 1087280

Thank You Sir....

And YES, I know exactly what that looks like..... you keep shooting AND THE HOLE GETS SMALLER!!!

fer REAL....

20yrs ago I built an 18 twist 308-.200......back when an 18 twist was "WTH???" (my gunsmith at the time nearly sent it back to Krieger when it came to his shop) ........ but ennyways, I made up the cases and went out to try the bugger for size.

I PULLED OUT THE 4TH SHOT.... on purpose..... because I'd convinced myself the bullets were blowing up!

LOL


still got the barrel,

and the gun,

and right now,

this day I can set 'er up in the bags, tie a cat to the trigger and blow spitballs at the cat.

And them 112gr BIB's will all go in the same hole.... ain't no "if I do my part" involved when the gun werks......

Good Stuff Mike.

thanxag'in

 

[beemanjohn]

I just bought a tuner form Mike at gunsandgunsmithing. I have to say that was a wonderful day. I did not know that his kind of service was still alive and well in this day and age. If you have ever dealt with Mike you know what I'm talking about. If you ever decide you need a tuner or anything else he sells or does, he is the man!

 

[JLT]

That is true, over time. It's also important to remember that we aren't dealing with a single sinusoidal wave here. The overriding element is the deformation of the barrel under pressure. There are many different frequencies occurring at the same time. A tuner seems to work because it adjusts the "average" of those frequencies, low and high. The highs have less influence but are of importance..

That's very true. A two dimensional view of the problem at hand is tough enough for the purposes of discussion. Composite functions along three dimensions makes for messy discourse.

 

[ngb1787]

Does that carbon wrapped barrel know how to read a wind flag?

 

[Bart B.]

And citing Geoff and VA and their pixtures and memes?? ....."reverse phasing???"....!!!!!........ "descriptions" of stuff that can't even be SEEN until groups are under 1/4moa??? ....... "tuning" only occurs in groups INSIDE the sort of garbage being cited and shown ...

Seriously, if you don't have the wherewithall to understand their stuff and why it's factual, a simple thing to do is say you don't understand. Just because someone doesn't grasp an explanation of why things happen doesn't mean it doesn't. Ask for a simpler explanation and you might learn something. I do that a lot.

 

[alinwa]

Seriously, if you don't have the wherewithall to understand their stuff and why it's factual, a simple thing to do is say you don't understand. Just because someone doesn't grasp an explanation of why things happen doesn't mean it doesn't. Ask for a simpler explanation and you might learn something. I do that a lot.

Dude, it's because of guys like you that we're spending taxpayer dollars subsidizing frauds like Ela'n Thee Musk, "hydrogen cars" and jousting endlessly at windmills under the flickering light of "solar energy" whilst creeping socialism devours my childrens' inheritance........

There's a phrase in Texas called "I saw the rope".

And you will always fall for any story, any view, just so long as someone'll show you the rope.

I GET IT...... I just disagree, fer real. I don't need to "ask for simpler explanation" LOL!

Here's another sign I keep on my wall.

“Two percent of the people think; three percent of the people think they think; and ninety-five percent of the people would rather die than think.”

― George Bernard Shaw