Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

[Hoot]

While I realize that threads like this are quite ubiquitous, I decided to chronicle my experiment for the benefit of folks considering purchasing a Savage MKII BTVS, though it details the methodology one can employ when determining what ammunition any rimfire rifle likes.

Over the 4th of July weekend, I purchased a MKII-BTVS rifle for several reasons. First and foremost, I love thumb hole stocks. My three Model 12’s and my Rem 700 Varminter all wear them, along with my Ruger 10/22 and 10/17. They just fit me and are comfortable to shoot. I also wanted to step into a Rimfire rifle that was more attuned to accuracy, yet affordable. I chose the Savage brand because I like Savages. They’re like “the little train that could” brand. Like my other Savages, the bore got a good scrubbing with JB compound before the first shot ever left it. Judging from the flecks and slivers that came out, it was time well spent. It also did the standard trigger job, leaving it for the moment at 1.5 pounds. I didn’t want to take too much off of a trigger with no mechanical wear yet. As my barber is fond of saying, “I can always take more off, but I can’t put it back on.”

I do read before venturing and unlike the centerfire calibers which a reload for, I went in understanding that I was at the mercy of the ammo manufacturer when rimfire is involved. Aside from general attributes of quality (or lack of it) associated with some brands, each rifle is an island that needs to be charted as to what ammunition works best with it. I posted on a local forum, what I was up to and a local member contacted me to get me some of the broken boxes he had left over from when they did the same thing. Combined with the few I already had, I wound up with 24 candidates to experiment with. For me, this is the ultimate form of enriching my shooting experience.

Here’s the candidates:

As I have said before, shooting from a vise or Lead Sled is as far from fun as you can get. I like to shoot my rifles, not operate a machine that does it for me. However, I wanted to test my rifle and the ammunition, not my shooting skills. There’ll be plenty of time for that later. So, I utilized my Dad’s Lead Sled with a Velcro strap that fit over the rear of the stock, to keep the setup as reproducible as possible after cleaning the bore.

Here’s a view of my lash-up:

Nothing professional to see there. Just making the best of what I had available.
The scope I used was a Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x40 because it sits as close to the bore as possible without the adjustable objective scraping when I turn it. I did employ a cant indicating level, again, to minimize another variable.

Though I knew that a seasoned barrel typically shoots better, I elected to clean the chamber and bore and shoot three foulers through it every time I changed ammo. While that got old quick, I had no other way to maintain a level playing field for all the different ammo involved across 240 shots. While not the best environment for noteworthy groups, returning the barrel to the same starting point at each ammo change was a good compromise. My logic being that if a particular kind of ammo shot well in a freshly cleaned barrel, it would only do better later when shot through a seasoned one. I also elected to shoot 10-shot, 50 yard strings instead of 3 or the more common 5. I was more interested in discovering trends than producing brag-worthy target porn. I also did not change the scope zero once I began testing to give perspective to how groups move around as a function of velocity. That’s a common phenomenon in centerfire shooting.

While I was more interested in groups, I set up my chronograph also, mostly to see the velocities my rifle produced versus the manufacturer’s claims. Messing with that as the sun arced across the sky wound up being a distraction at times, but luckily, the Lead Sled cannot feel frustration.

Here’s my downrange view of the 50 yard target box:

The first days weather was picture perfect. The temperature started out at 66 at 9 AM, but by the time I finished around 3 PM, it was 83. Humidity was comfortable and it was still enough for the mosquitoes to hover around my insecticide covered carcass like smoke at a card game.

For those of you with a short attention span, here is a quick, ranked list of how they performed. The 10-shot, 50yard group size in inches, is at the end of each entry in <brackets>. The particular target associate with the group is at the front.

Updated 7/20/13

T5-4 SK Standard Plus <.422>
T6-1 Winchester Subsonic HP <.493>
T2-1 CCI Standard Velocity <.524>
T7-4 Eley Black Box Match <.526>
T4-2 Remington - Eley Target Rifle <.547>
T1-1 Aguila Golden Eagle Target <.591>
T4-1 PMC Match Rifle <.631>
T7-2 CCI MiniMag 40gr <.777>
T1-3 Aguila Match Rifle <.789>
T5-3 RWS Target Rifle <.801>
T3-3 Fiocchi MAXAC <.816>
T7-3 CCI MiniMag <.862>
T5-1 Remington Yellow Jacket HP <.868>
T2-4 Federal Premium HV Match <.886>
T4-3 Remington Subsonic <.894>
T7-1 Remington Govt Match <.940>
T6-3 Remington GB Bulk (Sorted) <.973>
T1-2 Aguila Match Pistol <1.02>
T6-2 Winchester M22 Bulk (Unsorted) <1.108>
T2-3 Federal Champion 40gr (Unsorted) <1.132>
T2-2 CCI Stinger HP <1.141>
T3-2 Federal AutoMatch Bulk (Unsorted) <1.142>
T1-4 Aguila SuperExtra Standard Velocity <1.444>
T8-1 Federal Champion 36gr (Unsorted) <1.472>
T6-4 Remington HV <1.497>
T3-1 Federal Premium Target <1.716>
T4-4 Remington Viper <1.76>
T5-2 RWS Subsonic HP <1.978>
T3-4 Fiocchi SuperMatch SM320 <2.156>

So, it looks like my rifle is a “cheap date”!

Here is a spreadsheet of their performance for those who enjoy a good spreadsheet:

At certain times of the day, the sun angle caused the chronograph to not pick up the bullets. The sun is accepting complaints at this time, but there is a backlog due to it being summer.

What follows are the target images. For bandwidth purists, I apologize for not cropping them down to just the groups. I felt that seeing where the groups fell was equally as interesting as how tight (or not) they were.

Being a “Walter Mitty”, scientist wannabe, the effort was enjoyable despite being tedious. It wound up taking two days at the local range to complete. I have four remaining types of ammo that arrived after the big range sessions. This coming Saturday promises to be a carbon copy of the first outing. Though it’s been stifling hot all week, the weather gods are giving us an uncommon nice weekend. I will update my results from that third outing. I’ve pretty much decided and ordered ammunition that will last me into the foreseeable future based upon my tests. Whether that ammo performs like the example of it that I used in testing, remains to be seen. That too will provide an educational opportunity about lot variations. Hopefully I will not be pouting with buyer’s remorse. I will report on that as well.

Though not in the scope of this test, my 10/22 heavy barrel with the Volquartzen trigger has gotten incredibly jealous of all the attention that the new girl has gotten. Since I have many of the broken boxes of test ammo still available, I will give the old (1981) girl a dinner out at the bullet buffet in a little while. Gotta keep the peace in the safe y’know.

Respectfully submitted,

Hoot

 

[1Merlin]

Nice job, Hoot.... Very nice.

 

[TB]

I love write-ups like this. Well done. I think the Winchester Sub won't hold up but ya never know. Best bang for me is CCI SV. It's good affordable ammo. I would love to shoot SK (and Wolf Match) or Lapua all day but it gets pricey. Remington Eley match (not target) takes some more seasoning for my Savage and then it's tremendous. But again, CCI SV just seems like the right compromise for affordable fun.

 

[Hoot]

Tomorrow (Saturday's) Line-up will be:

Federal Champion 36gr (already did the 40gr)
Remington US Govt Match 40gr (White box)
CCI MiniMag 36gr
CCI MiniMag 40gr
Eley Match 40gr (Black Box)

Identical test setup as before.

Hoot

 

[Strut]

Really excellent write up. You are far more patient than I am. I have contemplated the use of a rig like the "Lead Sled" but in terms of spending priority, it stays down on my list. Always seems as if something else crowds in above it.

 

[Hoot]

Really excellent write up. You are far more patient than I am. I have contemplated the use of a rig like the "Lead Sled" but in terms of spending priority, it stays down on my list. Always seems as if something else crowds in above it.

I was surprised when my 80 year old Dad asked me out of the blue about getting one. He's a hunter by nature and not one to spend his day on a range, at a bench. I myself would never spend that kind of money on one. I gotta say, up til now, it has come in handy occasionally when working on other people's high powered, centerfire rifles. Otherwise, it sits in a corner.

My advice to folks considering buying one is to instead make friends with someone who already did. Unlike letting people use my Chrony, there isn't much they can do to hurt a Lead Sled. Time to pack the gear and head out. Will report in with today's results by lunch time. It's 69 degrees with wind out of the NW at 3.
BBL,
Hoot

 

[butchlambert]

Nice write up. I believe if Hoot did it again with his 10-22 he would get a different result. I have a Mod37 Remington that just loves Tenex. It shoots Aguila SE pretty well. I have a nice 10-22 with a Shilen barrel and a Jewell trigger that I built about 15yrs ago or so. It is opposite in what it likes.
I think a test like this shows you what your particular rifle likes.

 

[butchlambert]

I do have 22LR ammo for sale in the classifieds

 

[NateHaler]

One group per test lot is not enough IMO to infer statistically valid conclusions. As to the bore cleaning, I think you introduced a variable rather than eliminating one, and it cost you a whole bunch of time. FWIW, at the Eley test range, it is not uncommon for them to fire ten thousand to a hundred thousand rounds between cleaning, per an article in Precision Shooting magazine.

When I test ammo in my Anschutz rifles, I shoot at least five consecutive 5-shot groups, and do not clean until after the session, and that means the boltface and the crown. As recommended to me by a member of the USA shooting team.

 

[Hoot]

If your bets were on the Eley, they were a safe bet.

I'm starting to get the feeling that even strapped in the Lead Sled. Once your 10-shot, 50 yard groups are down in the .6 inch and less range, even the Lead Sled can be influenced by the shooter. I mean it does have pads upon which the stock sits and they do give a little when you press on the rifle. In the case of my setup. Once the crosshairs are lined up on the bull, other than a gentle pinch between the trigger guard and trigger, I try not to influence it. Still, it shifted off target every shot a little bit. The Sled Az-El and/or the scope cant had to be touched up. Some of that occurred from the recoil and some from cycling the bolt. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want it any other way. The rifle was already so controlled, it's reassuring to know its still alive. That's a philosophical issue I currently deal with. How controlled should the gun be and the shooter still get credit for shooting it? I'll leave that debate for a different thread.

Back to the testing and before I forget, several people have inquired about my target grid dimension. They are 1/2 inch. I didn't mention that as I assumed folks would gauge the results based upon the size of the bullet holes. Sorry about that. I designed the target along with standalone 1-up versions in 1/2, 1, 1-1/2 and 2 inch bulls. I have them stored in my cloud space. If you want a link to them, drop me a PM.

Here's the smaller spreadsheet of the 5 late-comer candidates. Unlike the first one, they are not ranked smallest to largest group, but in order of occurrence. I could have merged them into the original spreadsheet and updated it, but it already takes up a lot of space on the screen. I did update the original simple ranking list to include the new results.

The resultant target images follow:

I'm happy with the effort spent characterizing this different ammunition for my rifle. My thanks to those who helped me get hold of it. I will follow up this thread when the stuff I wound up ordering arrives. Mainly to speak to how reliable it is buying ammunition not from the same lot that you used to determine that your rifle likes it best. The SK Standard Plus I have coming is in two different lots, based upon the numbers printed on the end of the brick boxes. Too bad I didn't ask the fellow selling it that question before buying it. Hindsight is 20:20

I hope everyone enjoyed reading this almost as much as I enjoyed getting there.

I leave you with one caveat. Even if you own the exact same model rifle as me, my results should always be viewed as specific to my rifle and the particular lots of ammunition I shot in it. Do your own testing with your rifle for the final word. IMHO, the middle ground groups are more impacted by slight variations in manufacturing for the same rifle or ammo models. Both the good and the bad ends are probably reliable indicators of where the performance is likely to be the same though.

Hoot

Edit: WRT cleaning to the same point before trying every type, I did not want the type out at shots number 230-240 to benefit from the barrel being seasoned by the previous shots, given those shots did not have the benefit of the same degree of seasoning. Also, if I could afford 10 to 100,000 rounds of Eley, I would not be shooting a Savage, nor any other ammunition than Eley. Given the scarcity of such a diverse collection of candidates in these troubled times, not even speaking to the cost, I went with what I had available to me. Some of the broken boxes I was fortunate to get, only had 10 or 11 rounds left in them. I was tickled pink and humbled by the generosity of the locals for helping me compile such a great selection in just over one week's time.

H-

 

[treeman]

Hoot, great write up. you will also find in future testing that in cooler or warmer weather accuracy will change . what shoots well in warm weather (80*) may not in cold weather (25*) of coarse the same can be said for center-fire ammo.
Darrell

 

[NateHaler]

If your bets were on the Eley, they were a safe bet.

Hoot,

I appreciate the effort you want to. Cleaning is my least favorite part of shooting. And one of my mentors, Jerry Tierney, cleans very infrequently compared to most. And is capable of winning any and every match he's in. I think there's a lesson there.

But more importantly, drawing a conclusion based on one group is dicey. I had a Valmet M76. Using IMI ball ammo, and iron sights, it would occasionally put five shots into 3/4", which certainly was not representative of its typical accuracy.

I'm not made of money either. I reference Eley because they are testing ammo that is capable of winning the Olympics, and they're not cleaning for thousands upon thousands of rounds. Shooting different lots all the while. The really accurate stuff gets labeled one way, the less accurate stuff another.

I look for best bang for the buck. If I can get .22 ammo that will shoot 125% of the group size of the best stuff, but at 25% of the cost, then that's what I buy and use. Because in my world, that means value. Because I'm not trying to win the Olympics; just trying to put all of the shots in the same hole using gear I can afford without spending ourselves out of our early retirement plans! 8)

 

[Hoot]

BOhio

I understood your first words as well as your second, having seen them in my own mind as well. I've owned a Ruger 10/22 since 1981, though my long term experience has been in centerfire. It was and still is my squirrel and rabbit hunting rifle. In 2003, I discovered the 17 HMR. I built my own 10/17 from a 22 Magnum and aftermarket barrel. It required some corrections to the design that allowed it to tolerate the bolt thrust of the 17 and it has served me well these past 10 years. Eventually got it to wherw it will put 5 shots in a nickel at 100 yards.

At that time. Based upon the reading I did, I knew I would have to qualify the different 17 HMR ammunition available at that time. I did and despite other people's experiences, my 10/17 shot Remington's head over heels better than the other available candidates. The experience left me disdainful of shooting rimfire calibers because I was and to this day am still not comfortable having the quality of my ammunition in the hands of someone else. I reload for 12 different centerfire calibers, not because it is less expensive, though that may have been the case back when I first started reloading in 1980. The state of the art of reloading equipment, supplies, wealth of shared data and my own growth at the skill has proven to me time and again, that I can produce loads the exceed what I can buy at a far greater cost, though it's getting hard to reload cheaper than some of the cheap blammo ammo we see coming in lately, especially before the panic. That's okay. I don't have a Rambo Wannabe mindset.

Watching the local rimfire enthusiasts take practice on the rifle range while I was there countless times, conducting experiments with both mainstream and wildcat calibers, I grew to sympathize with their plight of having to buy their way to accuracy and precision. I have shot occasional good 3 and 5 shot groups of centerfire loads that were over time, bad recipes. I do understand the pitfall of trusting small statistical samples. When I decided to begin delving into the rimfire arena, so that I could develop my own skills enough to participate in that league next year, I knew that there are a few shooter's for whom money and equipment cost is no object. They field fantastic rigs, adorned and assisted by every conceivable accoutrement that can buy them success in competition. I have no delusions of grandeur that I will be able to afford the necessary hardware to go toe-to-toe with them. They are the top of the food chain in the league and will remain so. Behind them are sportsmen like myself who enjoy furthering the art of shooting in as many arenas as they can reasonably afford to support. Watching that "second tier" of competitors, I know that I can through practice and furthering my education, run with them and have fun doing so.

I could cash in a large portion of my investment in centerfire which is still my main passion and buy my way into that top tier, but I see no long term benefit from closing a door to open a window. As such, I bought this Savage MKII, not because it represents the best value in cost and accuracy in the field of sub-$400 rigs, though it does well anyway. I bought it for the factory thumbhole stock offering. A personal favorite because of ergonomics. There are tasks to be performed on that rifle to allow it to reach it's full potential. Being someone who loves to work on rifles, that is providing me with a parallel source of entertainment while narrowing the field of the ammunition to feed it. I can however, hedge that bet somewhat by trading my spare time in the evening, doing sorting. If I am to set upon the task of honing my shooting skills before the short, comfortable weather, shooting season up here ends, I needed to expedite the vetting process. It didn't take much time with my available candidates to grasp the simple fact that many indicators of promising centerfire ammunition behavior are the same indicators for rimfire. Those attributes are not owned by just one brand and model of ammunition. Moreover shared among a handful. Yes, they may vary from lot to lot depending upon the care in manufacturing that their companies dedicate. My Savage's dimensional tolerances will change over time as well. It isn't an expensive rig by rimfire competition standards. It, like my ammunition choices represent a compromise.

So I did my testing, drew my conclusions and jump-started the process to make as much progress as possible before the first frost. Next year, I will not be burning through thousands of rounds during the league season. Mainly because they don't shoot that much and secondly because that would severely impose upon the disposable time I have in a week to devote to centerfire as well as rimfire. So, I do not worry too much if my choices at first favor expedience. My rimfire skill level is in a state of flux. Hopefully, it will gel over time and I will pare down my processes to take advantage of what I learn as I go. That journey, though taken by countless others, is the best part of the personal experience. That's why Golf, Bowling, Billiards, even Darts are so popular. The fun is in getting there, through practice, experimentation and keeping detail rich logbooks. Sure it may at times be re-inventing the wheel, but I'm a seeker by nature. While I may well not find any truffles in my search, I sure enjoy turning over leaves.

Hopefully, by this time next week, I'll have some results from the two other lots of SK Standard Plus that I ordered. I'll certainly report back with those results, regardless if whether it was a good, educated guess or not. We only benefits from sharing our failures as well as our successes with one another.

Hoot

 

[justinp61]

Great read, thanks for sharing. I too have a Savage MKII, mine is the lh version of yours, a BTVLSS. I haven't tried near as much ammo as you did. It did shoot Ely Tenex best, I think it was Tenex, it was in the yellow box. Anyway the CCI SV was very close, 10 at .446 center to center at 50 yards. The Ely wasn't much better, and at $25 for 50 vrs $7 for a 100 CCIs the choice is clear for me.

Got any good loads for a 1-12 barreled 22-250? ;D

 

[Hoot]

...snip...
Got any good loads for a 1-12 barreled 22-250? ;D

I've tried a lot of different powders in my Savage Model 12 FV 22-250 (1:12) over the years. The past two or so years, I've grown to love Alliant AR-Comp. The stuff is as close to temperature immune as any powder I've shot ever, including the Hodgdon Extreme powder family. Up here, our temps can swing from -30 to +100. Not in the same day mind you. AR-Comp does not change more than ~15fps over that range and is spec'd up to +140. That's not out of the realm of possibility sitting on a dog town on a hot summer day with lots of shooting. A chambered round will absorb the heat from the barrel while waiting for the next dog to pop up. Alliant has done their homework on their recommended loads on their web page.

I can attest to the 55gr Sierra HP over 34.6gr of AR-Comp and a Federal 210 primer. That 26" 1:12 eats it up, though it does not achieve quite the velocity they claim. Above 3200fps, who really cares. 5-shot @ 100 yd off a BR1000 and rear protektor #14 bag = 1/3" hole. The stuff makes me look better than I am. It's also great in my .223, .308 and 6.5 Grendel. Haven't done enough work with it in the 260 Rem yet to have a strong opinion.

Hoot

 

[justinp61]

Thanks Hoot. My 250 is a Savage FVSS in a Stockade Elk Stalker stock, it shoots 36.0 gr of Varget with a Sierra 1365 55 gr bullet and a CCI 200 primer very well. I killed three ground hogs with it early this summer that were 377, 383 and 416 yards, I missed at 450. All shots were off a bench on bags.

Sorry for the hijack. Again thanks for taking the time to put together all the stats and posting them.

 

[spclark]

How & where in the heck did you find that assortment of ammunition in today's buying environment?

 

[butchlambert]

Probably over a long period of time as I have done. I didn't wait for these times to come around buy.

 

[Hoot]

How & where in the heck did you find that assortment of ammunition in today's buying environment?

As I said in the first post, I wrote of my project on a local guntalk forum and the locals rose to the occasion. That's "Minnesota Nice" at its finest. The PMC Match has been out of production since 1988. I didn't know that at the time, I was just happy to take what was offered. Some of them shipped it to me from as far away as 150 miles. Some just met me in the metro at a mutually convenient rendezvous point. If I had sought to actually do this with what I could find and buy online, it would have cost me a significant chunk of change and probably a good month's worth of time.

Hoot

 

[Shynloco]

Hoot,
Let me offer my congratulations for the perseverance you've shown in conducting such a huge undertaking. In the end, your results show a what a rather inexpensive rimfire rifle (compared to the mid range and high end rifles) is capable of shooting. And those results are even more impressive considering a not so expensive rest was used to shoot your rifle off of. Personally, I find your test also verifies long held theory that what works in one rifle, may not be as effective and accurate in another rifle, given a specific brand or even lot of rimfire ammo, which is why many serious rimfire shooters find a specific brand and lot of ammo to shoot during a competition. Takes patience and determination to do what you did, not to mention finding such a wide range of ammos to test with. Given today's market, I doubt many could duplicate your test. So thanks and have fun with future testing.