Verticle Problems

[BoydAllen]

"The more we push it...." ? Please tell us what you mean by push.

 

[savageshooter86]

sounds like the load isn't working. Try a different powder or primer

I mean if he can shoot as good as it sounds and has a good set up and everything on gun checks out, it just doesn't like the load

 

[moose1223]

Currently using Varget, I have tried other powders with no success. Reloader 15, 17, H4350
When i say push it, I mean increase the powder charge.
When load testing I went in .2 increments and over one grain range we went from a tall clover leaf 3/4 inch group to an almost round 3/4 inch group to a straight line vertical and as the charge increases, the straight line vertical increases. It just keeps getting taller.

 

[savageshooter86]

just curious did you work then load up and do a ladder test or an OCW test to find the accuracy node? Sounds almost like you aren't in a node or are at the very end of it possibly causing the issue

Just my thought

 

[Steve Blair]

My 230 Hybrid load is very accurate in my F-TR rifle. Groups run around .25" from bench with a front sled and rest. From prone with bipod, a very different story. If the balance, position and hold are not correct and consistent, the rifle will displace. In the case of body position; mine with displace sharply, either left or right, usually right. If my body position is good and my hold is too tight, it will jump upward. Running 230's at 2500 fps produces a fair amount of recoil and is tricky to manage. 215's are only a little better.

 

[moose1223]

I can load it more, but I am only about .5 grains from pressure signs. I could push the throat out farther. If I go any further I may not be able to use the lighter bullets.

Sleepygator
I tested with the sand bags to eliminate as much of the human error as possible. I was looking for some consistency of some kind. My son is 16 and he needs more experience. Its easy to blame the gun or the shooter so I lean towards some kind of consistency as a staring point or base then try to deal with one thing at a time when possible. As kids usually do, they blame the equipment before looking at themselves, so I want a setup that when he points at the gun i can go back and verify the performance of the components.

 

[Steve Blair]

It may be that he needs more time before handling the increased recoil. It's not a problem of discomfort, it's just finding a way to dissipate the increased energy while the bullet is still in bore.

 

[broncman]

What was your starting load? I have a shillen chambered for 215's that is supposed to arrive in the brown truck tomorrow. I had them throat it so the 215's are just above the donught. 43 grains is a lot of powder for a heavy bullet! I had planned on starting at 40.5-41 grains.

Maybe you can drop enough to get into a lower velocity node and then see if that velocity will still be stable at 1000?? I had my bipod at the very end of my stock and moved it back towards the action and I had better results on my savage....

I would drop powder first and see if it helps....

 

[Steve Blair]

What was your starting load? I have a shillen chambered for 215's that is supposed to arrive in the brown truck tomorrow. I had them throat it so the 215's are just above the donught. 43 grains is a lot of powder for a heavy bullet! I had planned on starting at 40.5-41 grains.

Maybe you can drop enough to get into a lower velocity node and then see if that velocity will still be stable at 1000?? I had my bipod at the very end of my stock and moved it back towards the action and I had better results on my savage....

I would drop powder first and see if it helps....

[br]
I use 46.0 H4350 in .308 with 230's. It is within SAAMI limits and very accurate. At any velocity over 2300, 215's should be fine at sea level and better at altitude.

 

[broncman]

Should have stated Varget...
Might have to look at 4350 as well since I have some if it!

OP, please keep us informed of what you end up with!

Ken

 

[jsthntn247]

What about power pro or N550 for those big slugs.

 

[Steve Blair]

What about power pro or N550 for those big slugs.

[br]
I've used N550 with 230's and it was very accurate in testing. It's a double base powder and they make me a little nervous regarding temperature.

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

My 230 Hybrid load is very accurate in my F-TR rifle. Groups run around .25" from bench with a front sled and rest. From prone with bipod, a very different story. If the balance, position and hold are not correct and consistent, the rifle will displace. In the case of body position; mine with displace sharply, either left or right, usually right. If my body position is good and my hold is too tight, it will jump upward. Running 230's at 2500 fps produces a fair amount of recoil and is tricky to manage. 215's are only a little better.

230's At what range did you test for the .25" group?

 

[Steve Blair]

230's At what range did you test for the .25" group?

[br]
100 yards, over a PVM-21 chrono. The same distance I test all loads. 230 Hybrids are very accurate bullets. They have a long bearing surface and a great B.C. The caveat is that factors such as hold and body position become much more critical and there is less tolerance for error because of the increased recoil impulse.

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

230's At what range did you test for the .25" group?

[br]
100 yards, over a PVM-21 chrono. The same distance I test all loads. 230 Hybrids are very accurate bullets. They have a long bearing surface and a great B.C. The caveat is that factors such as hold and body position become much more critical and there is less tolerance for error because of the increased recoil impulse.

230's are the heaviest I have heard of anybody shooting out of a 308. Now I want to try the 210SMK's ;D Which everybody has told me NO!!!

 

[Steve Blair]

230's are the heaviest I have heard of anybody shooting out of a 308. Now I want to try the 210SMK's ;D Which everybody has told me NO!!!

[br]
If you have a 10" twist barrel; don't listen to them. I shot a 900 yard 150-10X with a Savage .308 and Berger 210 LRBT in the 2010 AZ Palma Championship. That beat the F-Open shooters for the tournament at 900. Heavy bullets will shoot just fine if you master the hold.

 

[BoydAllen]

That is an interesting point that hardly ever gets mentioned. Some years back, a friend was having vertical problems when shooting a rifle that has quit a bit of toe angle. I loaned him a different powder to try and encouraged him to stop trying to shoot it as if it had a benchrest style stock, and shoulder it solidly. It more than cut his groups in half. Some years later, a friend was getting inconsistent results with a magnum hunting rifle that was built on a tactical style stock. I moved his front rest back on the stock, and had him pull the rifle into his shoulder with the second and third fingers of his trigger hand, and adjust the cheekpiece so that it was just grazing his cheek, and not put any down force on the rifle with his trigger hand. His groups improved a lot. Another time, with a different rifle, in .338 Lapua, we found that his rear bag was too hard. The same bag had worked fine with heavier rifles and lighter bullets. I have seen many times when changing how a rifle was shot and supported made a big difference. We tend to get stuck in "load mode" and forget about the other stuff.