Vertical stringing

[MGYSGT]

Yea, Yea I know, there are lots of items of Vertical stringing. When I search for them and then click to read them, it takes me back to the Small Stuff site. Frustrating to say the least. Anyhow, I have Vertical stringing with .223 and 80 gr. Hornady Amax. Load 23.5 gr. of RE 15. At 23 gr. and 24 gr. I don't get it, but the groups are larger by about 25%. Both in vert and hor measurement. I seem to remember that Vertical Stringing is better than Horizontal stringing, but can't remember why. I only shot it at 100 yards today, cause I am looking for the better load and it was windy. 10 shot Group in the .5 range for the Vertical and .2 for Horizontal, just trying to figure it out.

Tom

 

[FroggyOne2]

Have you tried a seating depth ladder test?

 

[moorepower]

What kind of ES are you getting?

 

[Geronimo Jim]

I thought the old standard for verticle stringing was more powder!

 

[LHSmith]

What did you use to gauge the conditions?

 

[queen_stick]

Have you tried a seating depth ladder test?

+1

Don't overlook bullet seating depth.

 

[MGYSGT]

Thanks for the info. I have not done the seating depth thing, but that will be the next step. Those were my first loads with the 80 gr. Hornady. ES was 12, not perfect but not bad. Not sure what is ment by "gauge conditions". Are you talking about Temp/wind that day. If so it was 92 degrees F and wind out of 12 O Clock in my face at 17mph. It almost always blows in your face or at your back on our range. Nice huh. Again, I thank you for your input.

Tom

 

[MarkS]

Tom,

Sounds like seating to me. How do you have them seated now? Sometime just touching, can be hit and miss. I like them into or out of the lands.

Mark Schronce

 

[wboggs]

Another cause can be inconsistent neck tension. You might try annealing the necks if you haven't done that.
Bill

 

[LHSmith]

Without using windflags ....you're just wasting ammo.......you may have felt the wind in your face ( at exactly 17 mph)....but what was the wind doing between your face and the target?....what was the mirage doing as each round was fired? ...if you don't know the answers to these questions....all your shooting was just for noise.....not too mention any advice you seek may be ill-conceived because you really don't know if it may just have been the conditions that put those shots there.

 

[MGYSGT]

They were once fired brass. New when I got them. Neck turned and loaded for fire forming. I agree with the wind thing, except I don't really think that a wind from 12 O'clock can really do much at 100 yrds. Mabey, I don't know for sure. Still trying seating depth. Better today, less vertical, but a tad bit wider than the vertical. It could all be me as the first 4 round went into the same hole. No wind today. Might have to rethink that 12 O'clock wind thing. Will go the other direction next outing.

Tom

 

[LHSmith]

I agree with the wind thing, except I don't really think that a wind from 12 O'clock can really do much at 100 yrds. Mabey, I don't know for sure.

Tom

Tom, reread my post. Using flags/ribbons would confirm it WAS the conditions.....it eliminates so many variables and second guessing yourself, saving components, barrel life and time. You pretty much confirmed this today with a no wind condition although flags will show there is more happening between you and the target than you ever realized.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Went to a Short Range BR onetime at Manatee Gun Range in FL ( Winds of Manatee). I never knew that there was so much wind going on everywhere. The shooters on each side of you, which are only a few feet away, had completely different wind. There is a lot of wind in a 100 yards.

 

[jmatters]

Another + for seating depth... a .005" change took me from 24X to 41X in a 50 round match in a single session.

 

[SmokinJoe]

You are concerned with vertical, and 6 or 12 o'clock winds create mostly vertical - hint, hint I agree with some of the posts above, wind flags would be your best friend. Don't know much about seating depth because I've almost always gotten great results into the lands, but I'd like to learn more about it.

 

[jmatters]

A .2 horizontal in windy conditions tells me you're doing your part, unless as Joe says the wind was mostly in line with the bore.
If groups opened up on both sides of the powder charge, it sounds like you are in a sweet spot.
With only a .5 in vertical, I don't think you can rule out stringing at the other charge weights, if, as you say, both groups opened up by 25%. So I think the vertical is still there, just being masked by larger overall group size.

So if vertical is present in all, then it may come down to a position problem. The simplest answer is usually the best...

 

[K22]

I thought the old standard for verticle stringing was more powder!

I've too have found this to be the cure, not in all situations, but enough to make me think this can be a factor that should be tried assuming you within safe pressure limits.

 

[MGYSGT]

Thanks for all the input. I have a list of things to try. There is no doubt that I am responsible for some of it (position, trigger pull, yada, yada, yada). I am revisiting the seating depth, neck tension and annealing. I went .001 smaller on the bushing and saw a small change in vertical for the better. Thanks for spending your time to get me squared away.

Tom

 

[Hammer47]

Front rest too hard...
no windflags...
incorrect neck tension...
powder ammount...
rifle out of balance...
scope issues...
poor bedding...
barrel hitting barrel channel...
barrel heat...
scope mounted in a bind...


There are only about a gozillion things that can cause vert. Fun game this. ;D