Vertical Stringing

[RePete]

Well I'm finally getting in some trigger time with the 22BR and things are going pretty well.

I do have a couple of questions if anyone cares to help.

,1) I;m shooting some 52gr Bergers in the 14twist Pac-Nor barrel with a Benchmark. The load data that I have,from this site) says 26.6gr-29.6gr with 29.6 as the moost accurate load.
I have tried a few loads from 27gr-29gr and all are stringing verticaly about 1". I know how long my chamber is and my brass is trimmed -.003. The bullets are just touching the lands but I'm only .175 in the case. I've always tried to get one caliber in the case but that's just what I've been told.
Will seating them farther off the lands and farther in the case help with vertical stringing?
Or is this just something I'll have to experiment with?

,2) Now that I have all the chamber and die problems worked out would you all recomend getting a bushing neck die?
My chamber is .254, the fired brass measures .253+-, and the FL sizer brings it down to .250 before seating a bullet.
I'm pretty sure I'm just bumping the shoulder as my brass doesn't seem to be growing to much after 2 firings. Another option that is'nt much more than a neck die with a bushing or 2 is having a die made. Herrels web site says about 70.00.
Am I overthinking this for a Varmint rig? I just want to get as much benefit and longevity as I can with the Lapua brass.

Thanks for any suggestions, especially reguarding vertical stringing. I've heard lots of opinions on it and I'm not convinced any of them were correct?????
I'll try not to be to much of a PITA.

Thanks
Charlie

 

[billmo]

Charlie, Some BR and long distance shooters say that vertical stringing is indicating the charge/load is not quite right. I have no credentials to that affect. I do know for a fact that holding your rifle differently or applying pressure in different areas from shot to shot will cause it. That being said I also was having vertical problems some years ago with a Remington 7mm Rem Mag. Sendero factory rifle. After checking all that I knew to look for, I was told by a long time sort of shade tree type gunsmith to torque the actions screws at 65 in. lbs. You guessed it. No more vertical. I will let you draw your own conclusions on that one.

Bushing dies? Yes Sir. I think I would go that route and first try about .002 neck tension. Your loaded round should measure about .002 more than your sized brass neck diameter.I hope this helps. Bill

 

[RePete]

Bill,,,,,,,You're probably right on both counts.

I'm pretty confident the stock or action torque isn't the problem but naturally that's the first place you look.
I'm starting to think it's just me and my technique, or lack of. Alot of times I'll gett 2 shots touching and then the other 3 touching about a half inch away or vice-versa. A 86 year old BR shooter from our club told me it was consistant cheek weld, or lack of.... I work as a volunteer RO at our range and I work most of the BR matches so I try to pick up what info I can, but ya hate to bug the fellas when they are competing.

The Redding FL dies solved one of my original problems so I think I'll just get one of their bushing neck dies. I've had good luck neck-sizing in the past.

Thanks for the input.
Have a great weekend.
Later
Charlie

 

[billmo]

Charlie, I have to admit that sometimes, especially when I am just starting to shoot a new rifle,one that I am not used to) I will get a type of double group effect too. It is very important to get and obtain a solid and exact cheek weld every single shot. I think that one portion of bench technique is probably a leading blunder and stumbling block for more shooters than we might imagine. We just have to keep on practicing til we get it right. You have a good week-end too and best of luck with your new rig. I certainly am glad things are looking up for you. Bill

 

[pdog06]

"double groups' could also be something like a loose scope base. Maybe one of the screws bottomed out or something. Just something else to check.

good luck,
mike

 

[billmo]

Mike, you are correct. Don't want nothing dangling around for sure. I normally torque all base and ring screws to whatever specs. are required and then check them again after a couple of shooting sessions. After that you can pretty much put that to rest. Bill

 

[RePete]

I'm pretty sure it's not the Scope bases or rings. I naturally checked them and the action screws after each range session when I finally got her up and running.
They're Warne rings and those things are like a frikin rock!! I've started using them alot the last couple of years and really likethem. They would be alot easier to install if I had that third hand I've been wishing for all my life though.ha

I'm going to the range today and I'm really going to work on my set up.
I put a little more sand in my Rabbit ears and put the stop for the stock back on my front rest.,I take it off when shooting Varmints as it gets in the way when changing positions alot.)
Not much I can do about my aging eyes.

The reason I built this Rifle as a clone to my 17Rem was the fit but even though they have the same parts they still feel just a tiny bit different. I probably need to shoot it some more. Oh Darn!

Thanks
Charlie

 

[Preacher]

Repete,
You really need to buy one of Harrells Full Length bushing sizing dies.
Send em 2-3 cases and $70.00 and be done with it.
I got lucky and use one of my 6br dies with a .224 bushing for my 22br's too...

 

[RePete]

Preacher,,,,,,,,,,,I wasn't aware that Harrells dies were bushing dies. I didn't really pick up on that when I looked at their web site.
You'r advice has been spot on so far so I will give them a look.
I loaded 25 more rounds of the loads that showed the least stringing yesterday but seated 10 thou off the lands and shot them today. They really were terrible. Two touching then one an inch high and the next an inch low. Obviously the freebore isn't the answer.
I worked at the range today so I went in an hour and a half early so I had the place all to my self. No wind, about 65 degrees, and no distractions so I can honestly say I really don't think it's me at this point. I'm not the best shot in the world but I can generally shoot decently and even get lucky now and then with some .2's.
I'm going to give the stock a little skim bedding and double check that and the scope before I do to much more, but I'll probably end up with one of Harrells die's as well.
I have a proven old,U.S.) RedField fixed power target scope that I'll throw on just to make sure that my brand new Leupold isn't bad. I guess stranger things have happened, but I doubt that's the problem.

I'll let ya know how it goes.
Thanks
Charlie

 

[billmo]

Repete, It may be beneficial to try .004 neck tension when you get yout bushing die and a hard jam to lands. And, maybe work back from the lands in .005 increments to about .030 away from the lands without changing anything else.,5 shots each loaded per increment of jump) If nothing is promising with that then reduce the neck tension to .002 and try the same procedure with seating depth. There has to be a sweet spot somewhere. You may consider trying a different bullet and/or powder at some point. Sometimes these rifles will put you thru the mill before they finally settle down and begin to shoot right. I hope this helps. Bill

 

[NorCalMikie]

Charlie: I've never tried the Harrells dies myself but a lot of the folks sware by them so they must be pretty good.
My shooting buddy turned me on to the Forster "Precision Plus Bushing Bump Dies". Forster has them for $98.00 but Midway lists them as "in stock" for $50.00. They are for the 6 BR but if you get 3 extra bushings in the size you want, you can do the 22 BR.
They will bushing size the neck and bump the shoulder as needed.
The extra bushings were about $10.00 each from Midway.
Size 2 different cases for the price of 1. :thumb:
My loaded 22 BR ammo comes out to .251 to .2515 so I picked up bushings in .248, .249 and .250. Still using the .249 bushing but I havn't had the chance to use the others.,too much down time :,) And this is with unturned necks.
Just something for your consideration.
Looks like you got over the hard part and are just working out the kinks. I knew you could do it! Mike.