VERTICAL STRINGING AGHHHH!!!

[dusterdave173]

So I have been working a couple weeks on a new Savage LRPV 6BR
HS stock from factory--and that Honking heavy 1 inch barrel--The rifle is Very unbalanced!
Question
Could that be the reason I keep getting vertical in my groups?? Shooting off bench with heavy bag and bunny ear rear bag
I have it shooting two loads pretty decent then when I do several groups they tend to look like this

HS glues the rear pads on so it will be a pain to tear it off and add weight inside rear of stock--I was thinking of using vet wrap to add some weight on the back and test but just back from the range and thought--Ask my pals

 

[Doom]

A couple of easy things to check would be that the front stud is not handing in/on the bag and making sure the rear bag is set consistently. If you are squeezing the ears on each shot you need to be consistent on holding it through the shot.

 

[old codger]

How consistent are your velocities? Max spread?

 

[6BRA]

Have you moved the powder charge up at all?

 

[Big Mc]

So I have been working a couple weeks on a new Savage LRPV 6BR
HS stock from factory--and that Honking heavy 1 inch barrel--The rifle is Very unbalanced!
Question
Could that be the reason I keep getting vertical in my groups?? Shooting off bench with heavy bag and bunny ear rear bag
I have it shooting two loads pretty decent then when I do several groups they tend to look like this

HS glues the rear pads on so it will be a pain to tear it off and add weight inside rear of stock--I was thinking of using vet wrap to add some weight on the back and test but just back from the range and thought--Ask my pals

Looks like a set up problem. Holding the gun different each shot. Or a stock problem. Easy to fix. Tommy Mc

 

[dusterdave173]

Thanks guys
Spread has been real tight--20 or less
Will apply these ideas and try again--
Appreciate the help!!!

 

[K22]

I have seen rifles at the range set up on a front and rear rest with the rifle titled upward towards the target resulting in vertical strings of shots.

Makes sure the rifle is level on the front and rear rest and in the same position for each shot. Also, inconsistency of cheek weld and shoulder pressure on the butt of the rifle can cause vertical strings.

 

[jackieschmidt]

If it was a Benchrest rifle, I would say go up on the charge.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

If it was a Benchrest rifle, I would say go up on the charge.

Agreed but he also said the gun is extremely nose heavy. Both can cause it. Change ONLY one thing at a time.

 

[Sandbagger1]

More powder

 

[dusterdave173]

I Really appreciate the feedback--I will take all of these ideas and see if I can solve it--I am using a bag combo that works well with my other rifles -- ES is low--Will go to work and report
Again THANKS for all that took time to help. This is the only rifle I have that has done this and the first thing I notice is how awkwardly it is balanced in this particular stock.
Thanks!!

 

[rmeyerwy]

Eric Cortina and Jack Neary have some good stuff ( imho ) on this issue.
I think this is the one..if not do a search on the 2 of them..

 

[nmkid]

I have seen rifles at the range set up on a front and rear rest with the rifle titled upward towards the target resulting in vertical strings of shots.

What if the targets are so low you have to tilt the gun slightly down to get on target?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

So I have been working a couple weeks on a new Savage LRPV 6BR
HS stock from factory--and that Honking heavy 1 inch barrel--The rifle is Very unbalanced!
Question
Could that be the reason I keep getting vertical in my groups?? Shooting off bench with heavy bag and bunny ear rear bag
I have it shooting two loads pretty decent then when I do several groups they tend to look like this

HS glues the rear pads on so it will be a pain to tear it off and add weight inside rear of stock--I was thinking of using vet wrap to add some weight on the back and test but just back from the range and thought--Ask my pals

It can also come from the front bag but as far as balance goes, you can simply alter how you handle the gun to see if it cures the verts. Just hold the wrist of the stock and put light shoulder pressure into it. Especially if you were free recoiling it before, this can make a big difference. If the vertical goes away like that, you know it's in the balance or bag setup. If it still does it, it's likely in the load and it can be a combination of both going on. If you weren't already, simply try holding the gun a bit and change nothing else. Then progress to load etc. But as others have said, sure, it might just need more powder too. Ultimately, a nose heavy gun is just not something you'll enjoy nor get to shoot its best, so I'd fix that regardless, especially so if you intend to shoot free recoil.

Somewhere, Speedy has a good video on potential causes and cures for the verts.

 

[dusterdave173]

Our range is a tad down hill from the bench--but other rifles with same bags don't do this
new load work up so there is room to go up on powder--i am solid mid point on that so far
Will try things and report
Thanks

 

[SSchnd]

this is a good thread, thank you for starting it as I asked the same question of myself Sunday while testing at 500 yds. 223 Savage F TR rig 88ELDM Had two shots go way up on.
I will preface the photo, Mirage was very thick at the range and the terrain is flat so the target image in the optic even at 40x was dancing around like a blur so holding off and centering the dot was just a guess. I ll keep watching this topic. Need a F class coach here .)

Xero Velocity was 2793.1 fps
SD this test was higher at 12.1
Load has been more like SD of 5.
23.7 N135
Virgin Starline 223 brass forming
CCI 450
-.075 jump

Duplin front rest and a Protector rear rest.
Not sure which rear bag as all gear is second hand aquired.
100 load testing has produced ragged one hole groups and this to me (photo) is all on me behind the rifle trying to find a repeatable position.

I did find my self touching the left side of the stock opposite my firing hand (right handed) and I seemed to settle down on the remainder of the shots. Fired quickly trying to keep the condition in play.

 

[K22]

What if the targets are so low you have to tilt the gun slightly down to get on target?

You can't fix what you can't fix!

Although I don't shoot off the bench much anymore but when I do for load development or initial scope sight in or in an attempt to diagnose a problem, I first level the rife on the front and rear rest. I take a view of the target backer through the scope to ascertain the optimum position to place the target so the center is as level to the scope reticle as possible. It's never exact but I try to get as close as possible.

What I often see at the ranges is the target mounted too high on the backer resulting the rifle having a significant tilt up to align the reticle with the center of the target. When the rifle recoils, especially sporter weight rifles in heavier calibers, the vertical is amplified.

 

[TaperPin]

With a muzzle heavy rifle teeter tottering on the front rest, inconsistent pressure into the rear bunny ear bag can get you - short of adding weight inside the gun, you might go rogue and rest your left hand on top of and just in front of the check piece. I saw a fellow doing that and couldn’t figure out why for the longest time.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

With a muzzle heavy rifle teeter tottering on the front rest, inconsistent pressure into the rear bunny ear bag can get you - short of adding weight inside the gun, you might go rogue and rest your left hand on top of and just in front of the check piece. I saw a fellow doing that and couldn’t figure out why for the longest time.

Even light thumb pressure near the tang can make a significant difference in how the gun acts and the target looks.

 

[JFrank]

So I have been working a couple weeks on a new Savage LRPV 6BR
HS stock from factory--and that Honking heavy 1 inch barrel--The rifle is Very unbalanced!
Question
Could that be the reason I keep getting vertical in my groups?? Shooting off bench with heavy bag and bunny ear rear bag
I have it shooting two loads pretty decent then when I do several groups they tend to look like this

HS glues the rear pads on so it will be a pain to tear it off and add weight inside rear of stock--I was thinking of using vet wrap to add some weight on the back and test but just back from the range and thought--Ask my pals

Dave
Can you post a picture of your rifle set up in the bags as you would be ready to shoot a match?
Thx